Re: Crew Insurrections - to powerful?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mottlee:
Hmmm....Every time I try a crew In I get the slowest ships or I get a space station (sitting duck)
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

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Well that's your fault http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif. You can target the crew insurrection to any ship of the enemy you know!

Re: Crew Insurrections - to powerful?
 

I have repeatedly, and loudly, requested counter measures for both PPP and Crew Insurrection. If your TROOPS on a planet would remain loyal and fight with the population of a PPP'd planet just as if it were an invasion then you'd have a real reason to garrison important planets with troops. It would be much more realistic and make the use of PPP much more difficult. In fact, you'd probably see people choosing to try it on 'backwater' planets where there isn't likely to be a garrison -- which would also be more realistic. Add in some sort of accounting for the happiness level of the planet in deciding the success rate and you've got a pretty decent game system. Similarly, if the marines in a boarding parties component would try to take control of a ship that mutinies, just as if they were boarding an enemy ship, you'd have a reason to use boarding parties instead of just sticking a self-destruct device on your ship. As with everything else, keep asking. It takes a lot of consistent requests to get through the noise level that MM is living with. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 24 May 2001).]

Re: Crew Insurrections - to powerful?
 

Now THAT would be awesome! It would certainly add more dimension and chance to takeovers! But wouldn't that be kinda tough to program? Separating, say, the planet and the troops or the boarding party and the ship? It would seem to need another module just for the internal ship combat.

zen

Re: Crew Insurrections - to powerful?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
I have repeatedly, and loudly, requested counter measures for both PPP and Crew Insurrection. If your TROOPS on a planet would remain loyal and fight with the population of a PPP'd planet just as if it were an invasion then you'd have a real reason to garrison important planets with troops. It would be much more realistic and make the use of PPP much more difficult. In fact, you'd probably see people choosing to try it on 'bakwater' planets where there isn't likely to be a garrison -- which would also be more realistic. Add in some sort of accounting for the happiness level of the planet in deciding the success rate and you've got a pretty decent game system. Similarly, if the marines in a boarding parties component would try to take control of a ship that mutinies, just as if they were boarding an enemy ship, you'd have a reason to use boarding parties instead of just sticking a self-destruct device on your ship. As with everything else, keep asking. It takes a lot of consistent requests to get through the noise level that MM is living with. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I, like zenbudo + Baron, think this would be a great addition to the game. If course, you folks that don't like Intel can turn it off, but IMO Intel is a key strategy in my bag 'o tricks and countermeasures are definitely requested / wanted / desired by me.

Finally, a concise look (from the defensive side) as to what PPP / Crew Ins is - many players / forum posters seem to think it (PPP) is some kind of Anarchy Op instead of what it really is: taking over the government. If it truly is a takeover of command staff, then of course loyal troops should be able to regain control.

Some possible adjustments to your ideas, Baron:

Maybe if you have a certain level / number of troops on a planet, it would reduce happiness to Rioting or something like that. Anything below that level, the PPP / Crew Ins would be successful. (Could be a bear to code in now though...) Use similar idea with Security Stations on ships with crews - use a different Op for ships with MC's; a Takeover Virus or something.

Then, factor in a possible 'loyalty' component / facility / racial advantage (mentioned earlier in thread), and you have IMO a much better Intel system with far more posibilities and variations.

[This message has been edited by rdouglass (edited 24 May 2001).]

Re: Crew Insurrections - to powerful?
 

Yes, these are good ideas, and I've been nagging MM about similar ones lately myself. As for the issue of happiness having an effect... isn't this already done in the level-3 intel project which makes planets less happy and eventually revolt - anarchy Groups? I'm not 100% sure but I think this reduces happiness, which is of course increased by troops already, so it seems similar to what's being proposed for PPP, except for the result (riot/rebellion, I think?).

Maybe the solution to PPP is simply to omit it from the project list, making players use anarchy Groups instead, OR perhaps better, MM could change PPP to work like anarchy Groups, but the result being a planet joining the intel-attacker when the planet gets reduced to the riot/revolt stage.

PvK


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rdouglass:
I, like zenbudo + Baron, think this would be a great addition to the game. If course, you folks that don't like Intel can turn it off, but IMO Intel is a key strategy in my bag 'o tricks and countermeasures are definitely requested / wanted / desired by me.

Finally, a concise look (from the defensive side) as to what PPP / Crew Ins is - many players / forum posters seem to think it (PPP) is some kind of Anarchy Op instead of what it really is: taking over the government. If it truly is a takeover of command staff, then of course loyal troops should be able to regain control.

Some possible adjustments to your ideas, Baron:

Maybe if you have a certain level / number of troops on a planet, it would reduce happiness to Rioting or something like that. Anything below that level, the PPP / Crew Ins would be successful. (Could be a bear to code in now though...) Use similar idea with Security Stations on ships with crews - use a different Op for ships with MC's; a Takeover Virus or something.

Then, factor in a possible 'loyalty' component / facility / racial advantage (mentioned earlier in thread), and you have IMO a much better Intel system with far more posibilities and variations.

[This message has been edited by rdouglass (edited 24 May 2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Re: Crew Insurrections - to powerful?
 

Here is the irony......

While I think that PPP are to cheap (should be 3x as much).... they are less powerful than Crew Insurection. The reason being is that Crew Insurection transfer the Ship to your control - This could be a viable strategy that you would never need to build your own ships (beyond colonizers)

PPP transfers it to 3rd party AI - sure it hurts the affected party, but you do not directly gain either.....

Re: Crew Insurrections - to powerful?
 

I have not used PPP. How does that generate a new player when there are already 20 ?

Re: Crew Insurrections - to powerful?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Utrecht:
Here is the irony......

While I think that PPP are to cheap (should be 3x as much).... they are less powerful than Crew Insurection. The reason being is that Crew Insurection transfer the Ship to your control - This could be a viable strategy that you would never need to build your own ships (beyond colonizers)

PPP transfers it to 3rd party AI - sure it hurts the affected party, but you do not directly gain either.....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The reason Crew Insurrection is so powerful is that it transfers multiple technologies to you for much less than the cost of the Technological Espionage project. Does it make sense that you can figure out how to duplicate a technology from ONE working copy of a given component? This needs to be changed. Instead of giving you the technology outright, analyzing a working component ought to increase your research points towards that technology. But in order to do that the game would have to track all of your technologies at once like it did in SE3.

Re: Crew Insurrections - to powerful?
 

I agree, it is too easy to gain multiple techs this way. Maybe it could be limited to one tech advance total per turn/ship.

Re: Crew Insurrections - to powerful?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Utrecht:
...PPP transfers it to 3rd party AI - sure it hurts the affected party, but you do not directly gain either.....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Misconception - PPP does NOT make the planet revolt and form a new Empire. Anarchy Groups does that. PPP installs 'a government sympathetic to your causes' (or something like that). If it (the PPP Op) is successful, YOU get the planet - it does NOT create another AI / Empire like Anarchy Groups does. That's why Anarchy Groups is a Level 2 Intel Op and PPP is a Level 4.

Don't feel bad, many people have this misunderstanding. Check the info on it closely and try it a few times. I think your observations may be in error....

[This message has been edited by rdouglass (edited 25 May 2001).]