Re: TucoTuco
 

I think it's more that even though we're all pretty new to MP, depending on how much SP experience one has, or if they've been active on the forums, they might know more or less about these things. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

Eh, I've found that heroes aren't that central to the game (or at least the heroes I've come across for Pangaea with this mod) and while they might be a bit more powerful than the standard commanders unless your faction already had SC worthy heroes you won't get any SC heroes either.

So if you get them, great, they're a bit more useful than the average commanders but they aren't really that noteworthy at least in my experience.

Re: TucoTuco
 

Well, some of them give you access to another magic path or something, which is very nice. But since you can't count on getting ANY heroes, let alone gamble which you get if you do, then it's just a perk, and not a strategic choice so much. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

Completely agree about heroes.
On a brighter note: just got the province with 2 identical triton-producing sites! Speaking about luck... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
And another one - it was proved that Tien Chi PD (25) can stop Knights' attack dead. Well, actually two of those had managed to get away, but the principle looks sound... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

Nice luck there. Best troop producing site I've ever found was a naga site, usually I only find some run-of-the-mill undead sites (longdeads, ghouls, shades) and that's it.

Re: TucoTuco
 

Oh I love the one "A Death mage may enter to summon a Shade." Sweeeet..... And a year of doing that and I'll have..... crap! Yay.

And can't T'ien Chi PD kill just about anything? Someone needs to spank them soon, they're doing far too well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

Agreed, stupid T'ien Ch'i PD can kick the crap outta all sorts of critters, "someone" should really do "something" about it soon...

Re: TucoTuco
 

Considering "A Death mage may enter..." it was particularly funny when I found such a site as Helheim! Recruit Necromancer & summon Soulless... bah!
As for somebody doing something... you say you've got a particularly good site? Then you are welcome to try! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif Or did you mean developers? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Caelum, on the other hand, looks scary... Maybe I'll send some good gifts to one of my allies to trash you throughly? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
On more serious note - while Tien Chi PD are certainly good, I don't think they could kill anything. There are Bogus & Co, after all... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Plus Vampire attack, plus, plus... The world is full of dangers for our peaceful Empire! Luckily, there are much more for Bandar Log... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

Well I've never seen any PD successfully deal with Bogus & Co unless it was extremely well funded, somewhere higher than 40 at least. Vampire attacks I've actually fended off with a simple 20 PD in some cases. The worst, in my opinion, are the troglodyte hordes that pop up from under the earth mainly because they're just so much more common in my experience and can wreck bloody havoc unless your core troops are over the same size as them.

Re: TucoTuco
 

I've seen Troglodites deflected by Vans iirc. But they were quite numerous Vans - about 25+ PD... I am not sure whether they are more common than Vampires - maybe it also depends on scales.

Re: TucoTuco
 

By the way, who is fubaring Arcoscephales? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

That would be Ashdod. Doing a fine job of it so far, hope they don't stop so I can check out of this soon. lol

Re: TucoTuco
 

Why the rush Skirmisher?

Re: TucoTuco
 

Well there's no rush really, I'll continue to honor my turn commitment in this game regardless of how long it takes.

Try to look at it from my point of view. First MP game ever. Poor Pretender design decisions on my part. An army that can't win a battle against Ashdod to save thier lives.
A dead pretender. Shrinking empire. Did I miss anything?

Logic tells me I'm toast. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

Eh, fair enough. Strangely, I've always sort of enjoyed fighting losing battles in a way, gives me an excuse to try goofy things that I might not have tried otherwise for risk of ruining a winning trend.

On another note, did Napty drop out or something? I just noticed that Bandar Log isn't showing up on the 'turns received' list and I can't send messages to them in game.

Re: TucoTuco
 

Bah.

It appears you're right, and Bandar Log has turned AI. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Natpy, may we ask why you turned AI? If you were unable to make the commitment to stay in the game, the least you could have done was say so, so we could try to find a sub as it's still early enough in the game to get them.

Re: TucoTuco
 

I messaged him - he said that with his pretender dead, and he wasn't satisfied with the cuild he submitted for this game, he decided it was hopeless, and just went AI. 8 \

Re: TucoTuco
 

A pity about Bandar Log. Maybe he discovered virtues of its PD and was completely brokenhearted? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
Actually, it's a pity about Arcoscephales too. Especially as Ashdod doesn't need a bonuses he'll gain after crushing Arcos - they are strong enough as they are... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

Eh, such is the nature of war-games. Always a pity when people drop out but at the same time you wanna win, indeed a paradox.

Re: TucoTuco
 

I'm sure a more experienced player wouldn't have minded subbing that spot.

Anyway, nobody wants to beat just an AI. At least, I don't.

Re: TucoTuco
 

I doubt it's easy to find a more experienced player than Natpy is, really. Possible but still not easy.
Someone plays for fun, someone plays for victory. If you are from second category then it makes absolutely no sense to play when you have no chances to win. It is my point of view, not his.

Re: TucoTuco
 

Well, it is "sort of" bad etiquette to just drop the game with no warning though.

The problem is, in Dom, adding in an AI dramatically changes the way the game is played. It's generally considered to be a large advantage to the neighbors, since the AI isn't as clever at waging war, so can be easily annexed. On the other hand, it's also a serious problem for anyone with much of a border who was NAPed to that nation, as the AI may start rampaging at any given moment, they love raiding. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

But at the same time, if you offer the nation for a sub, often someone will join just for the challenge of the unfavorable position. As you just pointed out Fakey, it gives a great chance to try out something wacky and risky, for the fun of it.


So in summation, don't just randomly drop out, it's not nice. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

But again, like I was saying, it's not fair to the other people in the game. At least some effort should be made to avoid the AI, which most people seem to agree shouldn't be done except in very extreme cases (game won't continue, or nation will just stale forever), or if the nation is all but completely destroyed with absolutely no options whatever.

Bandar Log is still big in this game, there were options. Maybe not "high victory probability" options, but again, if someone is likely to go AI the minute they don't think they are in a good position to win the game, some hosts may stop letting them sign up for games. At least, I wouldn't allow a player who made a habit of just going AI at the first sign of trouble.

Re: TucoTuco
 

Yeah, that's what I thought was odd about Napty dropping out at this stage in the game. It's still really damned early and he honestly wasn't doing that bad. Heck, I'd stay on for the sake of experience, even if I knew I didn't have a chance in hell of winning I'd try to be the biggest headache (in game) to everyone else as I possibly could be until they finally eliminated me.

But whatever, at the moment I'm just annoyed I didn't have any provinces bordering his, all that free(ish) land and a capital if you are quick about it. For those of you who are sitting next to these newly vacated (sorta) lands, let the race begin.

Re: TucoTuco
 

Sorry about the Arco...My main army and his god army collided in an indie province and I killed his SC pretender by accident. So I took advantage of the situation....

Re: TucoTuco
 

No worries ,it's war. There's always going to be winners and losers.
And it was no accident that you killed my Pretender.
I moved the Wyrm there specifically to kill you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Just didn't turn out as scripted.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

Since this is a newbie game, shouldn't pretty much almost everyone be more experienced?

I don't know the chances of getting a sub or not, but we could have given it a shot.

Also losing a pretender shouldn't translate into a no chance to win.

In fact, based on the situation around him, he was in a pretty decent spot, especially now that he could take advantage of Arco's lack of defense and expansion.

All this is besides the point, if he couldn't/didn't want to play, that's not that big a deal, just the going AI without saying a word is unfortunate for the game, even if it does unfairly benefit me.

--

Was the wyrm outside your dominion or something?

Re: TucoTuco
 

No I believe I had 4-5 candle strength in that particular province when it was killed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

But the only way to get it back is the call god option right? The text mentioned that takes alot of mages along time to acomplish. I'm not sure I have that much time.

Re: TucoTuco
 

I believe it's 40 levels of priests. So ten lvl 2 priests calling god for 2 turns would do it.

I realize that with Ashdod breathing down your neck that may not be enough...

Re: TucoTuco
 

It's 50. Not a huge deal later in the game, for most nations. Early on, it's a lot of waiting around. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

"To kill an SC by accident" is certainly something new in this game's language! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

Yeah I know Wrana! it is outrageous but I think Gath early game troops arent so shabby and Ive got a couple good random lords which really help too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

By the way if anyone is willing to help me equalize the war verses Pangea and Vanhiem who just attacked me, I would gladly accept the allies!

Re: TucoTuco
 

Well, I at least certainly have Non-Agression Pacts with them both. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif
Another reason that the Council of Celestial Master didn't sympathize with your situation and so didn't recommend our glorious Emperor to intervene is that your conquest of civilized nation of Arcoscephales made you both recognized as rude and uncouth barbarians and too strong for liking of any clear-minded people! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif Of course, situation may change later, but then another gathering of the Council would be in order. Also, our glorious Emperor declares any bans on trading with other nations to be removed, so our traders are now ready to make deals with anyone! This opportunity may be just what you need! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

After long deliberations with my shamans (as well as a select number of particularly insightful spruce trees), the woodland nation of Pangaea will gladly take you up on your offer of trade. At the moment we have an abundance of nature gems as well as a smattering of air, fire and astral. Also, if need be we are generating a healthy gold income that could be diverted to sweeten a deal. We would be open for trade in the form of other gems or items.

As for the war with Ashdod, well, it was less a response to their attack on Arcoscephale and more a meeting of opinions between the nations of Vanhiem and Pangaea. That opinion being "this will totally work".

Re: TucoTuco
 

Hmph.

You have some gall to now ask for help from others when you completely ignored my attempt at dialogue and diplomacy many turns ago.

Perhaps now you can consider how ignoring diplomacy completely is both foolhardy and invites disaster.

Good luck anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

Just a side note, the nations of the world may want to pay particular attention to Venheim.

Their idea of diplomacy doesn't consider the claiming of 2 provinces to be an act of war. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Were it not for the need to save the noble Bandar Log from the current civil war that is fracturing their civilization, I'd be helping you right now Cerlin.

If the rest of you aren't particularly busy, you might want to look at Vanheim more closely, before you're on the other end of another 2v1. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

Well, claiming them indeed isn't an act of war. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Attacking your troops to get these, though... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
As for saving Bandar Log - well, let's just say that our Consorts are currently busy taking notes of your conduct to save for future use. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Maybe they'll also give some choice pieces to officials of other nations... unless you'll find something valuable to offer them for their silence... these girls love jewelry so much! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

Of course I received your messages. Just because we have not responded immediately does not mean we were planning on attacking you next. I tend to not try to needlessly make NAP with all my neighbors to keep it interesting. If I can win now then It will have been worth it. Even if I can wear you both down enough so someone else can take you is enough for me. May the best one win (or two...) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

I don't think I understand, Wrana? What are you going to tell them that they didn't see right here? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

You seized two territories from me.

You offer to NAP after this silent assault, trying to sweeten the deal with a couple low garbage magic items that will not serve my people in the same way that 2 provinces worth of income would - enjoy your nice lovely Inkpot End, BTW. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Then, I tell you to shove it, because my people are far too proud to just roll over and take it from behind, just because your indie expansion army can clear some small amount of Caelum PD. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

So? The only thing I did that some people might be bothered by, is letting them know that you appear to me to be dangerous. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif But, they already know that, so what other conduct? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

You'll see some conduct soon, don't worry, I am saving something special for you. You're lucky you doubleteamed Arcos, means I may have to break a sweat to take your capital. That's good, makes the triumph that much sweeter.

Re: TucoTuco
 

Hah, certainly is more interesting now I'll give you that. In any event, I hope that our battles will serve to make a worthy epitaph for your pretender god.

Re: TucoTuco
 

Well that last post was confused, sleepy head decided to think that Wrana was the representative of Vanheim. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif


For the rest of the world, it is true that noble Caelum was dealt a terrible blow when by chance, our revered deity Tengri ventured into the dark swamps and contracted a terrible disease. But her loss is our rallying point, and our nation is not weakened, but rather encouraged and emboldened. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

Well the crumbling of the Arco economy is almost complete.

I must say ,Ashdod has impressive troops. They've been beating me easily in most cases.
This game has been horrible. I have not found one magic site, not that it would be mine anymore heh. Was someone else aligned with Ashdod to orchestrate our downfall?

Not one hero made an appearance, worthy or otherwise. Our home temple was destroyed by an earthquake. Emeny dominion of unknown origin swayed some of my followers to follow a false god.

Re: TucoTuco
 

Wow that is some [censored] luck right there. And yeah, Ashdod troops are pretty impressive, I'm interested to see how my satyrs will measure up.

Oh and if anyone is interested, I'm in the market for death gems. In return, gold, nature gems and air gems.

Re: TucoTuco
 

To Skirmisher:
Have you choosen Misfortune 3? Looks like it - it removes the chance for heroes (which remains 2% for Misfortune 2) and generates events such as you describe...

And Celestial Masters agree to forgive the mistake of avian barbarians and not to hold it against them. They understand that such mishaps are part of an unfortunate fate of uncivilized nation... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

Yeah, I never dip into misfortune if I can help it. I've lost way too many SP games when knights come charging out of nowhere, or monsters spring from the earth, or vampires suck everyone's blood, or whatever terrible thing to kill everyone occurs right at my capital and cripples me in the opening turns.

Re: TucoTuco
 

Birds just don't hold their drink very well. ;p

--

Yeah, misfortune is perfectly fine if your other scales are great, but in general it's best to keep it to a minimum.

Also, misfortune 2 has only a 1% chance of heroes.

Re: TucoTuco
 

Agree. Particularly Misfortune should always be paired with Order which somewhat alleviates its effects, but even in such case I think Order should always be higher. And it's better to take any other bad scale at 1 than Misfortune 3 as this unlocks some particularly bad events.

Re: TucoTuco
 

No I had Luck 1 ,the misfortune is coming from another dominion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

Re: TucoTuco
 

Well, and you have even not so low Dominion score (6?)... Either that's your natural Luck score to which I can only offer my condolescenses, or you got Dominion-pushed by not building temples in your border provinces... Or they were only there and got carried by Ashdod's rush...
My condolescenses in any case. I like Arcoscephales nation, though I didn't try them in MP yet.

Re: TucoTuco
 

I was also having gold issues the whole game, so there was never really extra gold to build those temples. As soon as I had expanded to 8-9 provinces the de-expansion was started.