Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

PTF, SE4 Gold has a neat feature that allows modders to specify two pictures per ship class: a preferred and a second choice. If the preferred isn't found, the second choice will be used, and the second choice is one found in the default set, and looks fine IMO. As of Proportions 1.5, all new ship classes first look for a picture with a name as defined in the SE4 Image Neo-Standard. See http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/neostand.htm for lists of ship sets that include the extra ships.

As for when the AI takes over, Fyron has the best answer, which is turn turn all (or almost all) of the ministers off in your empire settings, so your existing orders will be followed, and the AI won't go rampaging around like the nut it generally is. If you had to pick an AI file to use, though, I would use the Proportions Amon'krie one, as it is the most tailored to the mod. This would mean you would need to make a shipset with the AI files you want in it, and upload it to PBW so the server can use those files. I'm not 100% sure PBW will even do that courtesy, though - it might not bother to load custom AI files from a player's ship set - I dunno.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Thanks. The Neostandard is not yet downloadable, but I think the defaults are sufficient.

But I would like to suggest to wait a few days more before we start, because your changes in ver 1.5 make up a completely different game as in 1.42, I would like to become familiar with the changes. At the moment I have got even problems to setup a good race. And I guess there are still some wrinkles to plain, or at least some features would be good to know. For example, you changed the solar sails to an engine-like behaviour without using supplies, but have you noticed that you need at least one little supply niche to have some supplies available ? Otherwise, if you setup a ship just with solar sails, your ship will just get one turn (per month).

EDIT: All right, OTOH I think it would be interesting to learn things by doing and I guess this PBW proportions game would not be the Last one ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ 17 March 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]</p>

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

It will be another day or two before we will start, at least.

Do notice that if you are planning to design a race with maintenance reduction, that the scale now works differently. It's now actually what it says it is, proportional rather than additive. That is, in unmodded SE4 or Proportions 1.4.2 or less, 25% is the base, and buying 10% maintenance reduction will give you a 15% maintenance cost compared to ship cost. In Proportions 1.5, 26% is the base, and buying 10% maintenance reduction will cost far less and have less effect, giving you 26% x 90/100 = 23.4% maintenace costs. (It can be raised to higher levels. 50% will give you 13% base costs etc.)

The SE4 Image Neo-Standard isn't a ship set you would download - it's a standard for other mods and shipsets to use, so that they are compatible. It says what file names to use for what sorts of new ship types. So, if you use a ship set made for this standard, its special images like Scout, Infantry, Heavy Base Ship, etc., will get used in Proportions 1.5. See http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/neostandlist.htm for a partial list of ship sets that have these.

True about solar sails - though they work better than trying to make a sail-only ship in unmodded. Just put something with supplies on your sail ship and it'll fly. I'll adjust this for 1.6.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

I like the sailing through the complete quadrant idea, and a 5kT supply niche is acceptable for that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Maintenance: How do the cultural modifiers kick in ? If I would take merchants (5%), will this reduce the absolute maintenance ? I have tried to check it out, but it seems to me that it is just added to the characteristic value (if this one is at 150, you get 155, but not sure about it). And we still have got the 5% minimum Maintenance, hardcoded, right ?

I still don't get the Neo-standard stuff, poor brain is completely in a mist, sorry this is a day of 18 hours testing Proportions mod... You stated:

"So, if you use a ship set made for this standard, its special images like Scout, Infantry, Heavy Base Ship, etc., will get used in Proportions 1.5"

Confusion completed: What ship sets can I use for proportions 1.5 ? In the readme files to the published shipsets, I cannot remember any terms like "this shipset is Neo-standard compatible".

Edit: Don't mind about my Last question(s), I will do my homework and read the SJ Thread about the image request idea, again.

[ 17 March 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]</p>

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

"Do notice that if you are planning to design a race with maintenance reduction, that the scale now works differently. It's now actually what it says it is, proportional rather than additive."

How'd you do that?

Phoenix-D

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

The cultural maintenance mods are added to the characteristic setting. You can buy up to 90%, and merchants would make that 95%. No way around the hard-coded 5% minimum, and actually you need to use a culture to get higher than 90%. I guess I should raise the limit on the setting to +95%.

Any ship set that works with standard will work with Proportions. Shipsets that conform to the neo-standard (there are several) will also get you distinct pictures for the new ship classes. E.g., an empire using the Vandron ship set will have distinct pictures for their scouts and escorts, while a standard Toltayan empire will have escorts and scouts that use the same graphic.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PvK:
The cultural maintenance mods are added to the characteristic setting. You can buy up to 90%, and merchants would make that 95%. No way around the hard-coded 5% minimum, and actually you need to use a culture to get higher than 90%. I guess I should raise the limit on the setting to +95%.

PvK<hr></blockquote>

Wait a minute... In this case, the cultural modifiers should be tweaked, regarding the new maintenance model. My favorite one, e.g. is Engineers, just because of the 2% maintenance reduction, but they are pretty much worthless now, should be 7 or 8 in this case, merchants now 20...

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Ok... ok... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Let's see... 2 of 25 is 8%, so ya. I'll adjust those.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

I will be using my viking shipset. (It's on the gold CD, within the TDM modpack zip.)

I may soon have an updated Version with more images than there are on the CD. I really ought to update my website. I should do the neo-standard page while I'm there as well, since it's badly out of date and seems to be causing confusion. Just to clear up a few points:

1- The neo-standard isn't something you can download, despite the "download" page on the site. Like I say, it's out of date=-(

2- The neo-standard isn't necessary for proportions or any other mod. All mods and shipsets will work just fine without it.The neo-standard should not be a source of worry (unless you happen to be responsible for the website=-) Just think of the neostandard as a "bonus" which is unlocked if you use certain mods and certain shipsets together.

3- The neostandard has nothing to do with S_J's imagemod, although the philosophy behind them is similar.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

I'm using the Terrans. Seems as if no Gold mods are supported yet by PBW, so we'll have to wait until that will have been set up.

Not too bad for me, as I'm on holidy from Thursday till April 30th, and I'm begging you all to wait for me, as it's really a big deal for me to play in this game!

Gorgo

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gorgo:
Not too bad for me, as I'm on holidy from Thursday till April 30th, and I'm begging you all to wait for me, as it's really a big deal for me to play in this game!

Gorgo<hr></blockquote>

April 30th ! You seem to be a teacher or a student, or do you think of March 30th ?

Anyway, I think it would be good to wait at least one week or 2 weeks in this case, because there are still some things to learn about Proportions 1.5, maybe a good idea to get some time for bugfixes and such...

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Sorry! I meant March 30th.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Hey, if you don't start until after March 30th, count me in as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Rollo

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

How about this: Rollo, you play as the Space Vikings, and I will change the viking ship colours a little and make a new flag and race portrait, something like this (quick sketch in paint) and I can play as (fanfare)... the Space Valkyries!

I'm gonna enjoy this...

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by dogscoff:
How about this: Rollo, you play as the Space Vikings, and I will change the viking ship colours a little and make a new flag and race portrait, something like this (quick sketch in paint) and I can play as (fanfare)... the Space Valkyries!

I'm gonna enjoy this...<hr></blockquote>

LOL http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Excellent idea !

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Hehe, do you have a name for the Empress of the Valkyries? How about Helga Dogscoffdjottir. I am going to enjoy this, too...

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Dogscoff, I like it, you just need to do some pictures - use the race portrait for the space viking, ditch the beard and paint in some fishnets - for the spaceships, just stick an earring off any suitable part of each vessel or change the colour scheme to an interesting natural calico or oatmeal with a lemon dew blush

Sorted
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Growltigga - I had planned to just paint breats onto the front of the viking ships, but it didn't look quite as good as I had imagined. I might try again though.

Rollo: Hadn't thought too much about names yet but you're right, she just has to be Helga.

Anyone know of any god freeware software that will let me apply a colour change to a whole set of images rather than having to load each one, alter it, save it...

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Well, Dogscoff, I think half of your problem is finding a picture of the right type of breasts to stick on the front of your ships!!
have you got rid of that spare copy of gold yet?
yours hopefully
GT

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Sorry GT, it went to my brother. It is the final stage in my plan to assimilate him into the SE4 collective=-)

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Oh well, it went for a worthy cause then!

The opportunist in me had to ask

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gorgo:
I'm using the Terrans. Seems as if no Gold mods are supported yet by PBW, so we'll have to wait until that will have been set up.<hr></blockquote>

Proportions 1.5 is set up on PBW now. I haven't started our game setup yet, though. We could start briefly and then take a break for Gorgo, or just wait for Gorgo to get back before starting. What do the other five players think - any preferences?

I will post another patch before the 30th, but I don't know that it'll have many important changes. The only thing I have so far that would affect early games is the maintenance rate thing, and even that only affects the amount of resources stockpiled in the early game.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PvK:


Proportions 1.5 is set up on PBW now. I haven't started our game setup yet, though. We could start briefly and then take a break for Gorgo, or just wait for Gorgo to get back before starting. What do the other five players think - any preferences?

PvK<hr></blockquote>

PvK, we've already got 9 players:
Arak Koba
Dogscoff
Gorgo
Osweld
PsychoTechFreak
PVK
Krsq
Imperator Fryon
Rollo


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Oh, and starting before Thursday and then taking a break until I return would be fine with me, if we manage to be that fast. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

We might wait untill Gorgo gets back to start, I don't think it's worth while to take a few early turns and then wait a weak and a half before really starting... especially when you might fix up the mod some more in that time (even if it isn't anything major).

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Please don't start before the 30th. Otherwise I won't be able to join.

Rollo

[ 18 March 2002: Message edited by: Rollo ]</p>

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Ok, the 30th it is, then. Players can get a preview in single-player and recommend any tweaks in the meantime.

Current players and ship sets:

Arak Koba (?)
Dogscoff (Space Valkyries)
Gorgo (Terrans)
Osweld (seorfleet)
PsychoTechFreak (?)
PvK (something you guys don't use)
Krsq (?)
Imperator Fryon (Vorlons)
Rollo (Space Vikings)

(Oh, and to answer a question from earlier about how I managed to change the maintenance reduction scale, it was via a neat technique suggested by Suicide Junkie, which sets default maintenance level to 100, and then alters all of the vehicle sizes' maintenance reductions to the appropriate scale. This works because of the way that the different Ratings are applied. I.e., the reduction Ratings are subtracted from the base rate, but then that rate is multiplied by the vehicle size's reduction rating [plus 100, div 100, of course]. I tested it and it works spot on.)

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

I will be using Women-In-The-Mood... ahem, wait a minute...

No, I change over to Species 8472.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Hey, Rollo, I would rather need you more as a consultant than an opponent ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Welcome, I am looking forward to PBW with you.

[ 18 March 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]</p>

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Looks like Rollo and I will be fighting over the Viking shipset then.

Actually, I have an idea...

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Thanks. I may have to borrow that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Hey, Rollo, I would rather need you more as a consultant than an opponent ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Welcome, I am looking forward to PBW with you.

[ 18 March 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]<hr></blockquote>

Sure no problem, you can still consult me. All you need to do is sign the standard consultant (aka protectorate) treaty and there you go http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

Rollo

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by dogscoff:
Looks like Rollo and I will be fighting over the Viking shipset then.

Actually, I have an idea...<hr></blockquote>

I can use my old PBW shipset (generic ships, Hagar portrait, Beermug flag) and you can play the Viking set. I'd still like to hear your idea, though...

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Rollo:


Sure no problem, you can still consult me. All you need to do is sign the standard consultant (aka protectorate) treaty and there you go http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

Rollo<hr></blockquote>

I can believe that, indeed I can... But I will give you a hard nut to crack instead.

"Beerplanets are the best"

PTF

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

I have been wanting to use the Addisian Empire shipset from Version 1.49. I don't know if it has been updated yet at PBW.

And I am in the USA, EST

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

PvK,

Do you have your mod finalized how you want it or are you still tweaking? I would prefer to only have to put it on there once, so I will hold off if you know you are going to add stuff in the next week.

Geoschmo

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Geo, I think you already put 1.5 up. I am planning to release a 1.5.2 shortly, and then yet another Version before we start the game on the 30th of this month. So, it'd be nice if you could replace 1.5 with that Version, when it's ready, on or about the 30th.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

The Valkyries are coming along nicely, but I'm really not looking forward to re-colouring all those images individually.

Does anyone know of any software to make the job easier?


EDIT: Never mind, I found one. It's called Eyebatch, and 30 days' free trial should be more than enough.

[ 21 March 2002: Message edited by: dogscoff ]</p>

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PvK:
Geo, I think you already put 1.5 up<hr></blockquote>Errr? Yes. You are correct. Time to check my medication....

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Due to unplanned company on the 29th, 30th, and 31st, I won't be able to start until April 1st. The computer's in the room they're sleeping in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Ok. I'll try to post a 1.6 shortly, so people can start sending in their empire files. I won't actually start without anyone who's said they want to play. I'll start as soon as we get everyone's emp files, but won't start automatic turns until someone gets the first turn in, so the first turn probably won't be processed before the 1st, then.


Current players and ship sets:

Arak Koba (Addisian Empire)
Dogscoff (Space Valkyries)
Gorgo (Terrans)
Osweld (seorfleet)
PsychoTechFreak (Species 8472)
PvK (something you guys don't choose)
Krsq (ship set?)
Imperator Fryon (Vorlons)
Rollo (Space Vikings)


<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
Arak wrote, a while ago:

I have been wanting to use the Addisian Empire shipset from Version 1.49. I don't know if it has been updated yet at PBW.<hr></blockquote>

It's easy to upload a new ship set at PBW, with whatever ship set variant you want.


PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Work on the Space Valkyries is coming along nicely. I should be able to post my shipset and .emp on the 29th (Friday).

Are we starting the game under 1.5.2 or 1.6?

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

I am actually going to use the revised Addisian shipset. I just uploaded it to PBW along with a revised Taiidan shipset.

These sets are only slightly rearranged, but don't have any .emp or .txt files in them, so there won't be any conflict with Gold.

If you already do have the original Addisian shipset, however, it won't really matter and you shouldn't have to download the revision; you just won't see EXACTLY the same thing as me.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Are there still any openings for this game? I'd LOVE to play in a Proportions game, and the AI just isn't a huge challenge - and it doesn't appear to be available on PBW right now. So, if there's still room, sign me up!

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Cargus10, yes, please do join in! Let us know what ship set you'll be using. We mean to start about the 30th.


<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by dogscoff:
...
Are we starting the game under 1.5.2 or 1.6?<hr></blockquote>

We'll start with Proportions 1.6, which I hope to release tonight or tomorrow.

By the way, the game will upgrade to the first Gold patch when it is released, and any patches for problems found in 1.6. If there will be a 1.7 (meaning balance is changed or important things added) then we'll take a vote on whether to move the PBW game to it or not.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Great! I'll be using the ConFed shipset (from PBW). I'll look for 1.6 eagerly!

I may have missed this in the long thread, but how many racial points will we have to spend?

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

3000 points.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

PvK, could we reconsider the quadrant size ? This morning I have done a quick and dirty count with ancient race, medium based on 100 comes up with about 40 systems, 26 of them are just eye-candy, black-holes and so forth. If we are 10 or 11 players, this would be very tight in space. Maybe it should not be large, I propose medium based on 250 or similar.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Yes, although I think we'll use the new sidereal type as seen in 1.5.3 (just posted). It has far fewer planetless systems, although there are fewer planets per system. I think we may want to go with Large after all, because we have about ten players now.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

"26 of them are just eye-candy, black-holes and so forth"

I'm thinking anythink that can kill your ships isn't eye-candy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif And in some mods (this one as well I think) black holes are an early barrier to colonization because your colony ships are just too slow to get past them.

Phoenix-D