Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Yes. I also modded some more of the new systems to at least do some things. Some of the black holes are not only impassible by low-tech Proportions colony ships, the larger ones are even inescapable by them (they will be pulled inside).

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Yes, yes, all right. I just thought about the 14 colonizable systems for 10 players. If your home system is surrounded by "eye-candy" you are screwed anyway in proportions.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Pvk,

Has the game been setup on PBW yet? I looked but didn't see any that say anything about the Proportions mod. If you get the game setup now people will have a few days to join and for the newbies time to get familier with PBW. They can upload their .emp files there instead of sending them to you. Of course if you make significant changes to the mod they may need to send you new .emp files before the game starts.

I would suggest that when people join at the time they put in their empire name, they can put the shipset name in parenthases. This way you will now for those that are using stock shipsets.

You can set it up using the 1.5 that's on there now as the Version. When you have the final game Version ready I can change the game to that.

Also is there room for another player? I read you have 10 now. What's the limit?

Geoschmo

[ 28 March 2002: Message edited by: geoschmo ]</p>

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Yes, yes, all right. I just thought about the 14 colonizable systems for 10 players. If your home system is surrounded by "eye-candy" you are screwed anyway in proportions.<hr></blockquote>

The Sidereal quadrant in 1.5.3 has mostly colonizable systems. I'll do some trial setups and try to get something where we should have at least a 4:1 colonizable-system-to-player ratio, or so.

I'm not sure being surrounded by eye candy would be a huge problem in Proportions. It would be an obstacle to accelerated colony development, but also a protective barrier for your vital home system. If your were surrounded by real navigation hazards (ruptures/holes/etc) then it would be more severe, but again, highly-developed colonies aren't necessarily decisive, and a human can develop tech that can overcome the obstacles.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

geoschmo,

I will set up a PBW entry for the game shortly, so people can set up. We've listed almost everyone's ship sets below, so I think we're conflict-free.

I think we'll take up to 20 players in theory, and I think we have 11 at present - I'd just make the quadrant larger. Alternatively, if players prefer, we could start two games of 5-6 players each. That way each game would go a bit more quickly (and there could be a "fast players" game and a "slow players" game - both 48 hour turns, though, I think), and if anyone drops out of one game, we could probably find a replacement from the other game to take over.

Quick player poll:

1) Do you prefer one game with many players, or two games with fewer players?

2) If there will be two smaller games, would you prefer the "faster players' game," or the "slower players' game"?

3) Would you prefer a game without mine technology?


PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

1) Two games

2) Prefer the faster, but would be willing to go to the slower to help you even the games out. (I'd rather bein a smaller game with slower players, than a larger game with everybody.)

3) No preferance on the mines

I'll probably use my Leonine set that Val was working on for me. Will be my first game with it. I think he finished it. I'll have to check. If he didn't I can thrown some extra images in to fill it up.

Geoschmo

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

1) One game. I've not had the chance to play against several human opponents before. Having said that,

2) I'd opt for the slow game if there are two.

3) Keep the mines. I might not use them, but it wouldn't hurt to have that option available. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

BTW, I plan on using the XiChung ships. Should I combine that with the Amonkrie AI, or will that be necessary? Do I even need to upload a shipset?

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Krsqk:
...Should I combine that with the Amonkrie AI, or will that be necessary? Do I even need to upload a shipset?<hr></blockquote>

Short answer: No, for a default set, or one that's already on PBW, you don't need to upload a shipset.

Long answer:

I wouldn't particularly recommend packing in the Amon'krie AI in a shipset uploaded for Proportions, unless you expect the AI to get to do a lot of design, research and construction.

For purposes of ministers or AI takeover... I'm not sure how PBW works. I assume you could include AI files in your shipset that you upload to PBW, and then if your EMP file has "use ministers from style" instead of the default "ministers use selected style", then I would assume PBW would use those AI files from your ship set.

If you don't include AI files, or if you use a "selected minister style" in your EMP setup, then PBW should use the default Proportions AI's, which should be adequate. I don't think they're partcularly worse than the Amon'krie AI - the main improvements in Proportions' Amon'krie set are that it has some more-tweaked ship designs and building and research queues, which mainly help when letting the AI run an empire for a prolonged period.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

1) One game.

2) If two games are made, then the faster players game.

3) Leave mines in. Removing any basic options of the game is always a bad idea.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PvK:
For purposes of ministers or AI takeover... I'm not sure how PBW works. I assume you could include AI files in your shipset that you upload to PBW, and then if your EMP file has "use ministers from style" instead of the default "ministers use selected style", then I would assume PBW would use those AI files from your ship set.<hr></blockquote>

No, actually PBW doesn't use the ai files you upload at all. It uses one of the following...

1) If you use a stock race, or a custom race that has the same name as one of the stock races, and select "use ministers from style", it will use those files from PBW, not the ones you inculde with your shipset. If you select "use selected style" it then chooses the aggressive, defensive, or neutral defaulat AI files, depending on which you select. In both cases it uses the coresponding ai files in the mod you are usign if there are any. If there aren't any in the mod, it uses the stock AI files.

2) If you use a custom shipset that does not have the same name as one of the stock AI races and you select "use selected style", then it works as above.

3) If you use a custom shipset that does not have the same name as one of the stock AI races and you select "Use style from race", then it will randomly select a set of ai files to use for each turn you allow the AI to play for you. Similer to the way it will select a different shipset each turn for players that don't have the custom shipset loaded on their PC's when they play their turns.

The exception to rule 3 is if you are using a mod that has that custom shipset built in on PBW, like the TDM modpack.

Someday we may get to the point on PBW of adding peoples custom AI to PBW. For now though if you want that then your option is to put them in a mod and submit the mod to PBW for inclusion as a Version.

Currently the only thing uploading yoru shipset to PBW does is allow you to select it when you join the game so the other players will have a convientent link to download the shipset so they can see the pictures correctly when they play against you. PBW does not use the files, picture or AI for any kind of processing.

Geoschmo

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

1. One game

2. The slower game, if there are 2 of them, but I'd settle for either.

3. Leave the mines. It's one more strategic decision point.

I'll most likely use the "ConFed" shipset from PBW.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PvK:


I don't think they're partcularly worse than the Amon'krie AI - the main improvements in Proportions' Amon'krie set are that it has some more-tweaked ship designs and building and research queues, which mainly help when letting the AI run an empire for a prolonged period.

PvK<hr></blockquote>

Where did you hide the files ? Even with the complete downloads, I just find the following txt files in the Amonkrie Folder:
DesignCreation
Settings
Construction_Vehicles
Construction_Facilities

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:


Where did you hide the files ? Even with the complete downloads, I just find the following txt files in the Amonkrie Folder:
DesignCreation
Settings
Construction_Vehicles
Construction_Facilities<hr></blockquote>

Oh, I guess I was wrong about the Amon having a tweaked research file - many of the others have their own, but it appears the Amon use the default one. The main improvements of theirs are in their design and construction files.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

1 - one game

2 - slow game

3 - mines yes.

Valkyrie images are ready for upload. What do I do with them?

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

1- one game or two, either way is fine

2- the one dogscoff and PTF are in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

3- Mines ON

Rollo

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Ok, since we'll have at least one game, I've set up a game on PBW titled "PvK's Proportions Game #1". The only change from the setup mentioned several pages below is AI bonus to medium rather than high. (If a homeworld somehow did fall into AI hands, Medium should be plenty of bonus for it.)

Please enlist for the game on PBW. If enough people want to try to start a second smaller game trying to play faster or something, we can add one.

If your shipset is on PBW already (see their list), you will specify it when you send in your EMP file, which you will need to make using Proportions 1.6 (which is almost ready to be posted - you can join the game without posting an EMP file yet, though).

If your shipset is not yet on PBW, or you have a personalized variant of it not on PBW, then upload it to PBW first. This is simple and done from the PBW Mods/Shipsets/Etc section.

Let me know if you have any questions about any of this.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

1) No preference on the number of games

2) Fast

3) Mines on. I would rather get some proportions-like restrictions to intelligence projects done, e.g. industrial sabotage, puppet parties, or they could be more expensive

Edit: 2) Better not too fast, I should pick more a kind of "medium"

[ 30 March 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]</p>

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
...I would rather get some proportions-like restrictions to intelligence projects done, e.g. industrial sabotage, puppet parties, or they could be more expensive...<hr></blockquote>

It seems to me that the problem with making intel projects more expensive, is that it makes them harder to block. This is a problem in Proportions, though, because if targetted on a homeworld, there is no way to limit their effects. In other words, industral sabotage could equate to eliminating an entire cultural center, and puppet parties could take over an entire homeworld, and as far as I know, this is not adjustable in any way for the type of world or planet... unless homeworlds are immune from puppet attacks. Although blocking attacks is usually pretty easy, I am thinking I probably should just remove these attack types.

I think I'm going to remove Communications Mimic too unless there is an outcry or Malfador changes it to do something besides cause an automatic state of war.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Ok Proportions Version 2.0 is ready for players to create their EMP files with.

Snag it at PBW or from the Proportions mod web page.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

valkyries uploaded to PBW. Note that this is a pre-release Version with no AI.

Keep your eyes on my website for the first full release=-)

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Thanks, Dogscoff. I notice that the zip doesn't specify an extraction folder - I assume we should put it in "/Valkyrie"?

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Yeah, that's right. I have had trouble with the proportions mod in this respect, actually: If I put the images in proportions/races/pictures/valkyrie, they work fine. However, I'd like to be able to access them from other mods. Shouldn't I be able to put them in the main (ie non-mod) races/ pictures directory and have proportions access them from there? I've tried it but it doesn't work.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

If a mod includes races in its Races folder, then the normal Races folder will be ignored (except to access missing files for a race that has a folder in the mod).

[ 01 April 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Yes, it will show up if you just put an empty /Valkyrie folder under Proportions/Pictures/Races, and the pictures exist int he main Pictures/Races folder.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

I am going to withdraw from this game. I am already involved in 3 other PBW games- two of which are about to start soon- and I don't want to burn myself out.

I did that with PBEM Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri by playing 6 games at once; and as much fun as that was, it burned me out.

Besides, I am still new to SE4, and have NO time yet spent playing any Prop.mod games.

But have fun, all ye rulers of galaxies! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I will catch the next one.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Ok, so Arak, you must have been "Anunikoba"?

Everyone else seems to have signed up, and there seem to be two players who I didn't recognize from this forum thread: RexTorres and Askan.

We're still awaiting empire uploads from:

Krsq
Imperator Fryon
Geoschmo
Askan
RexTorres

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

I'll do it when I get home tonight http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
there seem to be two players who I didn't recognize from this forum thread: RexTorres and Askan.
<hr></blockquote>

Askan seems to have taken part in just about every multiplayer I've ever played. Either he's an *extremely* prolific player, or he's following me=-)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by dogscoff:


Askan seems to have taken part in just about every multiplayer I've ever played. Either he's an *extremely* prolific player, or he's following me=-)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr></blockquote>

I have a few doubles lurking around. Helps while I'm down the pub. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

BTW, Rollo, check your private Messages.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Game started!

To show ships of players with non-built-in ship sets correctly, be sure to extract their shipsets from PBW to your Proportions/Pictures/Races folder, under their appropriate names. You probably want to delete their AI files from those directories, though. If you have those races in your non-Proportions pictures directory, I think you can just put in an empty folder with the name of the shipset in the Proportions/pictures/races directory, and it'll work.

If anyone's confused by that or would like a giant file with all the needed shipsets, let me know.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Aargh! I can't get the pvkprop1 game to load http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif I've put it in the Savegame folder, but I get a generic "cannot load" error when I try. Anyone have any ideas?

Cargus10 (aka Greenstar in the PBW forums)

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Do you have the correct Version of the Proportions Mod installed?
Have you created you .emp file with the correct Version or maybe with an older Version of the Mod?

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

You have to unzip the file, have you ?

Edit: The file does not necessarily show up as a zip, but it is a zip. Right-click on it and send it to your zip manager program.

[ 05 April 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]</p>

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Yep, I've unzipped it, and yep, I have 2.0 installed - I pulled it off the Proportions website the day it was posted there.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Speaking of the .emp file - where must it reside? In the Savegames folder as well?

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Cargus10:
Speaking of the .emp file - where must it reside? In the Savegames folder as well?<hr></blockquote>

No, in Empires folder.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

If you can't open the first turn it has nothing to do with your .emp file. It's probably the path.txt has not been changed to use the proportions mod. Normally this gives an error about not having the same data files, but in the case of proportions you get the genaric "Cannot open" error. Probably because of the changes tot the racial traits file is my guess. Any way, my guess is edit the path.txt file, or use the modpicker and you will have no problems.

Geoschmo

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Yes, although the .emp file is needed to actually play a PBW game, just to start it up. I should have seen an error when I set up the game if the .emp were bad. It sounds like the "cannot load game" error that comes up when the current Path file points to a Version that is quite different from the mod the game turn was created with. He says he's been able to run Proportions though by himself.

I think the advice would be to back up or remove his current Proportions folder, and re-install Proportions. Perhaps, for instance, his zip extractor didn't create the right sub-folders, or didn't extract all of the files, or he was browsing the Prop data files and inadvertantly changed something, or something along those lines.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

OK - probablyu I messed up something when I tried to import the shipsets - every shipset people are using had different pathing information, and it's possible I moved soemthign to the wrong place. I'll just re-install Proportions 2.0 and try again - but it won't be until late tonigth before I can try, as I have tickets to the Braves-Mets game tonight http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

We've had a couple of reports where a problem like this turned out to be an outdated Version of WinZip screwing up the unpacked file.

capnq
PBW admin

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Cargus10:
OK - probablyu I messed up something when I tried to import the shipsets - every shipset people are using had different pathing information, and it's possible I moved soemthign to the wrong place. <hr></blockquote>

Don't bother with the shipsets now, you can download them you need if you get first contact. Maybe you just need 2 or 3 of them at all (like me ?)
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Well, it turned out to be the Version of WinZip I was using. i'm up and running now, and have enven sent turn 2 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Ok, Geoschmo has set up Gold 1.67 & Proportions 2.1 for the next game turn. If you've not already done the current turn, do that one in 1.60 & 2.0.

PvK