Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Corwin, I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, it appears that the nation has already been set to AI. Hopefully, Ermor and Van will fall upon each other to help ensure that balance is maintained. :)

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

I had planned a lengthy post defending myself but really it's not worth it. I had posted here explaining my leaving as a courtesy, had I simply gone AI none of you would have noticed the difference in all likelihood and in the future I might consider doing just that rather than having to deal with this nonsense.

If you have anything pressing you feel you must say to me, do it in a PM. Leave the thread for things that actually matter to the game.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

ROFL, you honestly think you would have been able to just go quietly AI in a 'vets only' game without anyone noticing. This wasn't some newb teaparty game you signed up to you know, where nobody notices anything, or where players generally just don't give a crap about what's going on outside the little world in which only their own nation exists.

A quick glance at the high class player list shows there's enough experience in this game to make it unlikely that you are even going to be able to take a piss without one of the vet players knowing about it. A lot of vets check stuff like stales and AI status on the llamaserver before even opening their turn file. So any sudden AI-turning will be spotted immediately.

"had I simply gone AI none of you would have noticed..." :lol:lol:lol Now THAT is funny.

Well, that remark clearly shows everyone what type of player you are, and the kind of respect you hold for your fellow Dominion gamers. But thanks for letting all the other Dominions players know what level of respect you have for them. Much appreciated.


Maybe your biggest mistake in this game was signing up for a game that was far in excess of your very casual and care free commitment to MP games. Despite the OP clearly stating the opposite was required in points 2+3. Maybe you didn't even bother to read the OP though, and you just signed up for this game simply because you saw a new game starting.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

I'm certainly a veteran, but I am playing this game for fun. You can notice that I didn't sign Baalz pledge, so I reserve the right to have a childish tantrum at any time, should I wish to do so. And, in general, I don't think it's cool to "police" sportsmanlike conduct too strictly. If Fakey is dead and doesn't want to stick around as a spoiler, I view that as fair. It's up to him if his position really is hopeless.

I signed up anticipating a challenge, so I welcome this development, as it will make the opposite corner of the board substantially more powerful. When Heliophagii and Seraphs are duking it out with magebane in space, I will know that this was the seed of the overconfidence that will be my enemy's downfall! HA HA HA HA!

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Ok guys, let's try to keep it civil and polite please.

Besides as Aethyr said, there is nothing that can be done at this point. Let's move on.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Of course there is, you can all concede to the Ermorian Empire and spear yourself the pain, suffering and humiliation...

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

:) The High Council of Pythium Empire will consider your proposal. Some of the eldermen there are no strangers to pain and suffering. But I am afraid the hotter heads may preveal... ;)

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Thanks for the input. I officially drop the ban request, and look forward to the rest of the game.

And, DrP, you don't need to sign Baalz' pledge. We all know you don't drop out of games.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Well, there aren't many indies left, but those that are left are bad mofos. You sure this was indy 5, Corwin?

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

I'll be away 2-12 of August. I have temporary sub (Kuritza) who is aware of my plans and agreements. I asked him to check PM box here periodically, but please don't count on it too much.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

All right Dimaz, thank you for letting us know.

On an unrelated note - the Empire of Pythium would like to aquire some death gems - 10-15. We can offer you any other gem type except earth in return.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

errr, shiny AI?

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Yeah, something about the 4th nation piling on in year 2 kinda destroys my motivation to fight much of a drawn out defense.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

4th nation? You don't mean me, do you? I just took a water prov next to you. No harm done.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

I think he's referring to Machaka

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

:mad::confused: I have to say that this is quite shocking Baalz. What Fakey did with Abyssia was bad, but I really didn't expect it from you - your nation is the leader in research, has strong army and has twice as many provinces as Abyssia did when they went AI. And you are one of the very experienced veteran players, whom I remember from several of my previous games. And you did it without even courtesy of letting me or anybody else know that you are switching to AI.


What has happened to your own "Baalz Good Player Pledge" ?!? :confused:

" If real life prevents me from doing this (emergencies, lack of internet access, etc) I will at the very least try to contact the game administrator and ask him to do it – realizing this is an imposition that should be reserved for things other than lack of interest. I will not set my nation to AI until 1) No substitute is able to be found after a couple days or 2) My capital has fallen (feel free to play through this if you like).
I’ll do my best to at least put up a token defense with the last of my forces when defeat is all but certain – this doesn’t take much time and makes the game much better for everyone else."

Yes, getting dogpiled always sucks, especially by 4 nations. But you are screwing everybody by going AI in this manner. All these good words about respect to other players time investment you have written in your pledge?...

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

I can't express how bloody frustrating it is that 6 out of the last 10 games I've been in have resulted in 3+ (usually 4+) dogpiles on me before the end game, usually before the end of my first war. 2 were anonymous, and 1 is in progress and early enough that's still a possibility - which means I pretty much can't play non anonymous games. Justified however you want to, lopsided dogpiles are bloody miserable with neither attackers nor defender getting a good game. There's no strategy, no skill, I basically got voted out the game before the first blow was struck. I've got the research and skill to inflict a bit of damage and draw it out, but having intimate experience with this what usually happens is everybody knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that I have no chance and thus nobody is super motivated to actually pay in blood to finish me off once I'm good and crippled by storming castles, etc. Putting up a defense will likely result in me limping along for some time in a hopeless situation. Why would I do that (yet again) when a significant portion of the players of the game just let me know they're not interested in having a good game? Every one of my neighbors was attacking me last turn (sounds like TC gained a token border...though he did let me know that he'd attack me if it looked like I couldn't hold off the dogpile), so I don't even feel any guilt for unbalancing the game with a power void since half the bloody game should more or less get an even piece of my corpse. I do apologize to you specifically Corwin, but I can't in good conscience stick a sub into this miserable situation - they're too hard to come by for even viable positions. My own frustration aside, it's best hat Shin just implodes evenly at this point.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Oh, come on.

You were in the middle - which I'll allow, is unfair - and then you proceeded to spread out over the sealanes expanding as fast as you could. I did measurements, for each and every one of your neighbors, you were closer to their capital than to your own. You take a strategy that enables you to grab all that territory - okay - and then you complain because not one neighbor will just let you have it?


I agree that it's no fun to get dogpiled, but you also didn't engage in any diplomacy that I could detect. I, for example, was entirely bribeable!

You're right that if you want to expand as fast as you can and never talk to your neighbors, you can only play in Anonymous games. Expect to get dogpiled anyway.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

This is kind of a silly argument, but you'll have a hard time making the point that I was overly aggressive this game, at no point was I more than 10% bigger than the smallest player (excepting when Aby folded), never remotely a leader in anything other than research. Perhaps I'm a bit jaded and could have pushed the diplo front more, but at the point a couple NAPs have been rejected and nation 3 is piling on, and there are indications that even more have signed onto the dogpile it's a bit late to start trying to desperately bribe people off. Meh, I really don't feel the need to justify my playstyle to you but the picture you paint isn't very accurate.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

I would have subbed for Baalz.

Apologies for jumping into a game thread like this, but I've come back to Dom 3 recently after a single MP game in 2008, which included Baalz, as well as Jazzepi.

As well as being a lot of fun, the game was a good lesson on what constitutes taking a dogpiling well, and badly. I'm happy to say Baalz was a very good sport on both ends of the hurled bratwurst.

So to see him setting AI here is surprising for me as well as others, but anyone who's read anything he's written here, or played with him, knows that he wouldn't be doing such a thing unless his frustration was well-founded and vast.

I can also attest to the mentality that causes less reputed players to want to step up and take a (well-supported) swing: throughout the time I was playing in that aforementioned MP game, whether I was sitting on the bus, walking through the park, or perhaps spending some quality time with loved ones....no matter what was going on around me, from time to time a dark cloud would cross my features and in some weird Dom 3 Tourette's syndrome kind of way spit out "Dogpile Baalz!", for no reason, before calmly returning to whatever it was I was doing. It was uncanny.

It is a very unfortunate side effect of posting so many awesome strat posts methinks: he's painted a huge target on his forehead. So many more players have heard about him as a result of the guides, and they just assume he's gonna mangle their elite sacred squad with a single monkey if don't combine to take him down. It happened in our game, and I have no doubt it happened in the other games he mentioned.

Obviously there are plenty of other good players out there that people should be similarly scared of, but simply aren't because they aren't so publicly visible. These players might even post in his guide threads, but no one remembers them so much.

Just give it a thought before you judge too harshly :)

Ok, end thread invasion. But seriously, I have some time the next month or two, so if you need some hopeless positions subbed in this or other games, drop me a PM, and I'll probably give it a go.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

well here's my 2cents.

Honestly i felt pretty bad about ganging on baalz because i know it happens to him in almost *every* game.

first let me explain why i attacked him. I was obviously looking for a war about now, so i started looking for allies. i heard from several players that vanheim/ermor/shin had all allied up and had started to work together to conquer the world. seeing baalz + the two strongest nations in the game all teamed up is scary. baalz happened to be the only one i bordered with. also, who else is fighting you besides me and nief? BL skirmished a little, but obviously ermor is their new problem. pangea hasn't attacked yet right?

In all honesty, this game for me, is one where all of the players should have a lot of fun. playing with players we respect. i don't want to make one of the most valuable players i know feel dissallusioned with the game. I honestly have no problem with rolling back to shin being not ai, and simply not attacking him. its more about fun than winning for me.

i know how baalz feels in a way, having been ganged then not finished myself. its happened many times to me. it sucks. the only thing i should say to baalz, is that Dr.P is right in regards to diplo. i never got a pm from you at least. you might have been able to point me towards nief instead.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

I was the first to attack him! After he seriously gimped my expansion. Was not able to press as hard as some others, and certain... realities... made continuing the war wholesale kind of inadvisable. (To start with, pretender to the face kind of hurt).

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

I do think, next time we do an all-vets game, that we should do wrap-around, or start in a circle around the edge, or something.

The all-veteran makeup of the game magnifies the unfairness of starting in the middle - in a mixed-and-matched game, veterans in the middle will have more neighbors, but more choices of "soft targets" to compensate (admittedly, newbies in the middle are completely screwed.)

In an all-vets game, starting in the middle has zero upside.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

No worries man, it's just a game. It's easy to say push diplo, but all that seems to accomplish is a bunch of simultaneous NAP cancellations (if I'm lucky) once the dogpiling starts (or NAP violations if I'm not lucky). Very much not disparaging anyone in this game, just explaining my recent history and frustration. Bribing people off from a position of getting steamrolled doesn't leave a lot of negotiating power.

Anyway, Shin is doomed, I definitely don't recommend a rollback. As I pointed out it shouldn't be unbalancing for the rest of the game as there's just not that much spoils once you split it between everyone attacking me.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Definitely agree in the wrap-around part. My position is so bad...

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Yes, I think wraparound is a good suggestion for the next vet game. I admit I do feel sorry for Baalz, after hearing his backstory, and I understand his frustration. Although I still think that this was certainly not the best way to handle the situation.

I am also thinking about having all players for the next veterans-only game I will be orginizing (if I will be orginizing it at all) to swear on the blood of their firstborns that they will *not* quit the game no matter what. At least not until they have 1 province left and no army to harm an enemy. Seriously, the upside of getting dogpiled and steamrolled is that you don't have to spend much time on the turns, since your options are shrinking quickly. As Baalz has explained well in his good players pledge.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Welcome back, Meursy. Just wanted to second what you said as I was not only the fourth (or fifth?) person to dogpile Baalz in that game (he was in the middle of Parganos - what fun!) but to add insult to injury I was following his Eriu guide when I airdropped my Sidhe Lords on his provinces. :p

Well said!

But the sad thing is it pays off. Moderate and occasionally large gains at relatively small risk. And unlike a closely fought war you still have most of your strength intact in case someone gets an idea of taking advantage. Then you just have avoid being the next victim of the dogpile...

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Hi there again Valerius, thanks for the welcome and the fun game!

And yeah, I forgot to mention that too, but in the 2008 game and the current MP game I'm in, I was following one of Baalz's guides, and I know that at least one other player in the game I'm currently in is too! Don't underestimate the Baalz Effect, word gets around...

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Ermor was not aware that we had an alliance with the nations of Shinyama and Vanheim, we are joyed to hear this, and equally saddened that our newly found ally has fallen, surely if we had known we were allied, we would have aided them, alas.

And those who should conspire against us, be wary of Ermors wrath! for it shall be great...

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Baalz. That was lame... in the extreme. Sorry, I don't journey to this forum much anymore, but good god man!. You could have fought! I had not even declared war on you. And probably would never have. You had only two nations actively fighting you.

Methinks the Baalz good player pledge is no more. Anarchy for everyone now!

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Bandar Log, your lands have been annexed to our Great Empire, please accept this transfer of power peacefully.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

I don't want to sound mean or anything, but that's two for baalz. this and warcry. at least say something please.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

requesting 32h extension to the current turn.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

All right, 32 hours have been added to the hosting timer.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Vanheim, that was the most pathetic first strike ever. You lost more than half those battles. Seriously pathetic. I'm even more sad that Abysia set AI against you if that's the best you can do. I think my wife could cobble together a better first strike than that, and she hates games like this. Hell, if i was the generous sort I'd be tempted to set AI out of pity.

Wasn't this supposed to be a vet game?

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

It was supposed to be a trash-talking game!

On that front, at least, it has delivered 100% :).

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Another 24 hour bump? Without anyone even requesting it? Corwin??? Really?

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

It turned out to be much less then 24 hours, new turn has hosted 2 hours ago. It looked like Vanheim is about to miss his turn (less then half an hour left before hosting), and because I also needed more time to complete mine properly, I bumped timer up a bit. The previous bump was due to Executor moving to new place and not having internet connection. He didn't post it on the thread but he told me about it in mail. But Ermor has submitted their last turn, so I hope things have worked out. Right Executor?

All and all - it is turn 26 already and we only had grand total of 1 stale turn, for a game with 13 original players. I think it is great and I would like to keep it this way, even if it means bumping a timer a little bit now and then. I will keep it to minimum though.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Unsurprisingly, no nation who started without a corner or edge is doing well. Non-wrap maps suck.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Hey, don't mind me and my timer posts. I'm well known for them. I check and see that 3 hours are left. I go watch a game on TV and drink a few beers, and when I come back, if it has been extended, I tend to do a rant.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Heh. :D

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Linglich #5 rules the interweb.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Ok, I've just bumped timer by 48 hours, since Ermor is missing and is about to stall.

As I said earlier, Executor has been moving to a new place and won't have an internet connection right after the move. I want to give him some time to settle and sort out his ISP. (meanhile I am trying to get in touch in him to find out what his situation is)

I think we should give him more time to sort out his connection troubles over the weekend, that's why I've bumped the timer. It would be a pity to lose a good player because of things beyond his control. If he won't appear by Monday, I think we should pause the game and look for a replacement. Ermor is in a strong position, so I hopefully we will be able to find a good vet replacement quickly.

In other news - I will be out in the country for a first week of September. (Going to the Burning Man festival in Nevada, and they don't have internet in the middle of the desert ;) ) If we could pause the game for that period it would be great. Of course I will make sure to submit the turn right before I leave and will make my new turn the moment I come back. Would you guys be ok with it?

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

This is okay as long as it doesn't extend for two more days after this. Delays of more than 4 days, at least in non-team games, really kill my incentive to stay interested. It completely killed me in Countdown I just couldn't move myself to keep caring after a certain point.

If Ermor can't be contacted, we either need to let him stale or find a temporary sub. Not Callahan (he's too good.) Someone else.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Burning Man, really? You gdamn hippie.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Thank you Ling. I think this was the first time in my life I was called a hippie. :D I am honored.

Although frankly these days the price of Burning Man tickets and the cost of transportation and accomodations in the Black Rock desert put the whole BM experience beyond the price range of most real hippies. I've been there 4 times and I would say that most of the visitors of BM are more like yuppies playing at being hippies. :D But they are having a lot of fun while doing it. :)

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Well, the modern day equivalent to a hippie.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Ok guys, it looks like Executor is not coming back, he probably does not have internet connection in his new place yet, and it is unknown when he will get it. So I am going to make a post for looking for a new player to take over Ermor. Since Ermor is a leader in number of provinces and is in a very strong position overall I hope we will find a good sub quickly.

If any of you know of a good and veteran player you might recommend to fill this slot please recruit him and let him know.

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

Shame to lose Ermor. But, at some point, one needs to just move on. Subs are tough to find these days. If one cannot be found, well, let's just have someone set him to AI. AI setters are easy to find. It's been what? A week since last hosting?

Re: "A Song of Ice and Fire", veterans-only game, MA. Closed, uploading pretenders.
 

+1. I hate for this thing to end by default, but if he vanishes from the face of the earth we're all going to lose interest.

However, as an alternative, I'd propose that we let him stale once (hosting now) and then give it another 72 hrs before we do anything drastic?