Question to good player: boarding
 

I'm trying to focus on boarding, and I would like to know, if possible, the opinion of heavy players (not necessary fat, but playing a lot http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ).
IF the self-destruct device would not exist, would boarding be much more important than currently?
Would it be TOO important?

[ September 23, 2003, 06:23: Message edited by: StarBaseSweeper ]

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

In my own mods in order to make boarding abit more viable I give self destruct to the engines themselves past propulsions level 3. Makes sense since the device itself says it overloads the engines... hard to overload something that isn't there. Thus easy way to board is take out the engines with engine specific weapons. Also gives a handicap. Would have to repair the engines before making use of the ship.

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

If their was no Self Destruct Device, then a Boarding Ship with Shield Depleaters would be a great combination against all types of ships, including the larger ones.
Your opponents would still have the option to add Sheild regenerators or Security Stations, so it wouldn't be overly powerful however.

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

It could even be argues that the SDD gives an advantage to the boarder almost as much as the boardee, since it means that a small ship can annihilate a larger one without having to shoot through all that armour and components.

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That’s true only in tactical combat. In strategical, ships will refuse to board a ship with SDD http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

I've been playing as a pirate in P&N against the AI, and once the SDD arrives, its a royal pain. 9 times out of 10, I get a gutted hull, but sometimes I have to destroy the ship.

If you want to start relying on the boarding parties, then I think the SDD ought to be Banned or removed for that particular game.

Just remember, you bording ship need extra borading parties and sercurity stations, or it might get boarded first.

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

Ho!

Thanks all for the enthousiastic answers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I say "ho" about the Last message. Do you mean that if Ship A try to board Ship B, it can be boarded itself??

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That’s true only in tactical combat. In strategical, ships will refuse to board a ship with SDD http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is not true. It might have been true at one point. And I know at one point I was saying this. But either it was never true or if it was it's been fixed. In 1.84 your boarding ships will most certainly attack a ship with SDD to their mutual destruction.

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Extra boarding parties won't help in strategic combat since all of them get used up whether or not they are needed. Security stations would be good though.

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Same for tactical, I'm pretty sure.

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Same for tactical, I'm pretty sure.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was thinking in tactical you could deselect weapons, but now that i think about it you are correct. Boarding is handled differently then regular weapons fire in tactical combat.

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

It seems to me that the key to late-game boarding is SD + BP = "hope you ship was cheaper than his"

You want them fast and tough and cheap, which kind of discourages battleships and larger.

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

Oh yeah, I know they all get consumed. It's just that 1 Boarding Party I takes over an LC, but fails for a battleship because it has more crew quarters.

So you figure a couple of Boarding Party II or III's can take over anything.

Now consider the opponent (human only, natch.) is expecting this, and adds boarding partys and security stations of their own. Your boarding ship could end up boarded first http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

With the SDD, this is all moot. But I'm really thinking of a mod where boarding is always happening.

This might be an issue for Puke's Furball Pinball game on PBW. Or not with the SDD available. I dunno. Frankly, I'd rather my big bad dreadnought not self destruct, but rather capture the other ship.

[ September 23, 2003, 17:37: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

cool... I think I am going to change sweet mod to reflect this.

Make the SDD unit high to research ( say level 6 propulsion and level 3 computers )and 50kt in size http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Great Idea.

Adds another element to the sweet combat system.

Thanks

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What the... Oh, crap, there goes my strategy in "Puke's Mail-Order Monsters"! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

(Unless, if by some magical reason, the fact that monsters' self-destruct ability is intrinsic to the hulls and not from a component makes any difference...)

(edit: oops, read Geo's post, that's nice to know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

[ September 24, 2003, 03:32: Message edited by: Ed Kolis ]

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

Ships refusing to board ships with SDD is stupid, this needs to be a flag for strategies or be removed at all.

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Read Geo’s post. Seems like I was wrong http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

Suicidal Captains, suicidal Marines.

"Yes, boys that ship is equipped with a dead-man's switch that will blow the whole thing into the void, and likely take our ship with it. But we're going to board it anyway. Hoora!"

chorus: "Hoo-RA!"

Another beatiful day in the corp.

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

Boarding ships do tend to run to the corners if all targets have 1 or more shield point, regardless of shield depleters on the boarding ship (in strategic combat)...

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

put on a APB
it will board more

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

If it is set to capture ship strategy, the ship will head for the corner no matter what else it has if the enemy ships have shields. If you set it to something where it will fire the weapons, it will no longer board. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

That isn't correct. I have successfully used ship boarding several times.

I have temporal weapons equiped with the temporal shield depleter a meson cannon and a shield disrupter large mount(can't regenerate if the generators are gone) on a light cruiser all other space with shields or armor.

Doesn't matter if the enemy ship has SDD or shields or shields with shield regenerators it still goes after it takes out the shields and board and with a SDD on enemy ship ussually dies.

I have effectively used this strategy mid-late game. Mass produce lots of cheap LCs to self destruct against battleships, dreadnoughts and baseships all equipped with SDDs.

Oh I also altered the default capture enemy ships strategy.

Primary - Capture Enemy Ships
Secondary - Point Blank (Default is optimal, which may cause the retreat in standard strategy, never used the default myself so can't say if that causes retreat)

Firing - Nearest, Strongest, Fastest, Has Weapons

All break formation.

PS: This has worked in both strategic and auto tactical.

[ September 25, 2003, 05:37: Message edited by: Cyrien ]

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

In my experience, boarding parties work quite well in the vanilla game. Against unshielded ships with no SDD, they are awesome. The best design, in fact, contains no weapons but the boarding party. Against shielded ships, shield depleters are the best weapon. Against the SDD... well, don't worry about the SDD. Either it won't be knocked out and you will not capture the ship, though contrary to what's been said, your boarding ships may still try to board thus destroying both ships-- a win for you, or your line ships will knock out the SDD and you will board successfully. You may get it virtually intact or you may get a gutted hulk. It's a crap shoot.

But the key it to have lots of boarding ships. Somewhere between 10% and 20% of each fleet should be boarding ships and you will make captures regularly.

Re: Question to good player: boarding
 

Just ran a test of boarding parties with default strategies set and it worked fine.

Also in a test with a ship only have Shield Depleter and Shield Disrupter and boarding party the ship still moved to the attack and attempted to board. Thus the APB or other weapon would not be necessary.

Note I did not use the simulator for any of my tests. I used actual combats in actual games with strategic resolve. This was done in a sim turn game.