When You have it.......
 

I wish to praise and dam the creators of SE4.I have only played the demo but have gotten myself hooked and quite frustrated.(yes,I have ordered the game,though Chips & Bits is out of stock)I cannot believe a company would in effect create a Ferrari, but give buyers and tryers the manual of a Pinto! Guys don't work your tails of for years, then not tell people the buttons to push to push and the bells to ring to get the most out of this great game, just to hit a low price point !! WHEN YOU HAVE "IT" PEOPLE WILL PAY FOR "IT". Or,as they said in that famous baseball movie, "build it and they will come".

Re: When You have it.......
 

I get a feeling this whole game is a very low budget program. There's not enough people working on the game, only 1 programmer I think. Is that right? anyone know? It sure would help to have a few graphics people work on the game. There was talk about the manuel, someone said that when the manuel comes out, it will be sold for 7 bucks, seperately from the game. They say it's just to cover publishing costs, not for profit.

Re: When You have it.......
 

Well low budget.. no budget. The key reasons the game has been knocked....POOR documentation and to a lesser degree less than state of the art graphics and sound.
Why sell something that will not only frustrate your customers, but not allow them to easily utilize or even be aware of all the features you slaved to put into the game?My guess...financial and time pressures to get the game out before the holiday buying season.

Re: When You have it.......
 

As SE4 isnt really a 'mass market' game...ie not available in stores...I seriously doubt that 'pushing it out for the holidays' was any real factor. If you followed the development of previous SE games you'd see a similar cycle of patches and updates in the early months. I hope this continues with SE4 so we can get it to be a far better game than it already is.

Yes, I'm quite sure MM does operate on shoestring budget. This isnt always a bad thing, though. Mainstream publishers tend to cut off support for their games within a few months of release to free up people for the next project etc. Small developers tend to look upon their release as more of a 'labor of love' and often continue to tweak and refine for a LONG time afterwards.

I'm sure if MM had unlimited resources in coding and testing that SE4 would be a far different game. But if that difference came at the price of more glitz and less substance I'll take the 'one man show' approach any day! FWIW, I think SE4 (and MM) would benefit from having someone go through and apply 'flavor items' to the game. This would not require any major coding, just gruntwork and therefore would not be a productive use of the main coder's (and designer's) time. Things like the AI tweaks per race and differing speech etc could all be handled by a non-programmer. I doubt that MMs budget could afford to employ such a person for long though.

The good news is that apparently, SE4 is selling VERY well compared to projections. I would tend to think that that means more revenue and thus more time can be spent on perfecting the game. Lets hope it continues to do well! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Talenn

Re: When You have it.......
 

Well I'll be honest here the only thing that might have accelerated the game coming out was fans complaining about the game being delayed, or have you guys already forgotten ;).

Re: When You have it.......
 

A more extensive manual would be nice but I still think not shipping with a bigger printed one is a good idea. The cost factor is definitely an issue but, also, wouldn't a printed manual based on the original gold code get a bit outdated after awhile?

The game is being tweaked and modified so much that I think a more flexible method of documentation is needed, i.e. electronic format. I'd love to see a printed manual/strategy guide some day but I think it'll have to wait until the dust has settled a bit more before it would have a shelflife long enough to pay for itself.

That being said, I still think the current electronic docs need some serious beefing up. I've not had any questions yet that haven't been answered here on the forum but that doesn't mean everybody has been so lucky.

I think the electronic distribution is a good idea but only if it is followed up. I can certainly understand giving it a lower priority than some of the major issues, such as the AI, which are currently being worked on, but is there any plan to flesh out the HTML manul later on?

Re: When You have it.......
 

Here is, er was the thread that was last posted in the longest time ago.

Thread Necromancy!

Re: When You have it.......
 

CW - Cease and Desist this abomination in the eyes of Aaron! Thread Necromancy? Ugh! Fyron shall smite thee with a Nogatchi for this crime!

Re: When You have it.......
 

Why?

Re: When You have it.......
 

Well known fact that Thread Necromancy is addictive. Next thing he'll be digging into the early archives of the Phongs head. Then he'll go "purist" and demand that we all only ever play with SE3. Then he'll declare that PC games are destroying the gaming world and revert to pen and paper with Starfire.

Do you really want to see that happen to a person the World WildLife Fund is going to designate as thier new poster beast?

Re: When You have it.......
 

Lol, my question was meant for Combat Wombat. You posted just before I did and I didn't see your post before I posted. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: When You have it.......
 

Oh, Fyron won't immediately bash your furry little skull out (as being a wombat)... I had a small bout of Necromancy in my early days on the forum and all I got was a PM by Fyron asking me why I was necromancing. Musta done two or three threads then.

And why would you want to lift a pleasantly dead thread like this out of its dusty cellar and into the limelight?

Re: When You have it.......
 

Happens to Celebrities all the time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: When You have it.......
 

Homo celebritus semisapiens.
English name: Celebrity.
Avg Height: May vary.
Avg Maximum Age: Unknown. Some specimens of H. celebritus semisapiens appear to be several centuries old, though unreported sightings speak of specimens several eons of age.
Unique Characteristics: H. celebritus semisapiens is the only life form so far capable of auto-necromancy, c.q. the revival of onseself out of dead form.
Sightings: Mainly on TV and in tabloids.

Re: When You have it.......
 

Have we seen these guys since 2000?

Time warp ahead five years:

For a low budge, 1 guy operation, Malfador has managed to obtain the covitted title of King of 4x. This cheap little low budge game has ousted such heavy weight mosters as MOO3, and Gal Civ. This cheaply made, DOS looking program has been the reigning king of the 4x market now for nearly five years. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: When You have it.......
 

One guy? Aaron? And DEG? What about him?

Re: When You have it.......
 

David had nothing to do with SE4. The graphics and sound for SE4/DO/SF/SE5 tend to be done by other people on contract, but the game itself is still made by just one person, Aaron Hall.

Re: When You have it.......
 

Ok, to clarify,.. I did not do any graphics for SE4, (other than some intro screens for mods and other 'post' release stuff.) I did ALL the graphics in DO, and made the UI and graphics with a distinct 'retro' look. (One reviewer said the graphics in DO were 'dated' and 'retro'. Quite a compliment when you consider that's what I made. Too bad the reviewer didn't know he gave me a compliment.) For SF Aaron asked if I could add some texture to the dashboard, that's all I did for SF. And now for SE5, well, I've done alot of graphics, all the UI stuff, event pics, finale pics, etc, etc, etc. I also have the honor of being the 'Lead Artist' for SE5. You can't be a lead artist if I'm the only artist so yes this time around Aaron has hired a team of artists, working on ship models, components, facilities and myself on the UI (working closely with Aaron)

All I can say is that SE5 is miles ahead of SE4 and is a giant leap for Aaron. I would not however compare this game to other product out there that has a development budget of millions of dollars. I will say, the gameplay in SE5 is second to none.

but enough ranting, you'll all be able to judge for yourself soon enough, after all time flies when we're having fun, and there is still lots of fun to be had with SE4 and SF.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: When You have it.......
 

So its playable already? Cool!

Re: When You have it.......
 

Absolutely. And, to be honest, the lack of a decent manual has, in a masochistic way, been part of the draw for me. I remember figuring out remote mining for the first time...it was a rush. And even today I find new things all the time...for a game that simulates exploring the cosmos, I think that's neat...in the same vein I hope that reseach in SE5 is not of the "you know exactly when it's going to finish and exactly what you'll get from it" variety like SE4.

Re: When You have it.......
 

I remember when I first got SE4. I was so completely lost. I was so happy when I figured out how to make a ship that will beat the AI. My tactics were so limited it was laughable. Then I slowly discovered other tactics. Mines, Sats, Drones, Fighters, etc. I think the gradual progression of understanding is one of SE4's major charms. There is always something new to discover, some new tactic or strategy. If SE5 maintains this excellent feature I may just have to store up food and water next to the computer because I'll never want to leave.

Re: When You have it.......
 

The only thing better than SEIV is SEIV Gold...

And AT's Star Trek Mod!

Re: When You have it.......
 

It was the same for me. When I first tried out the demo, the AI seemed sooooo tough. Every battle I lost, every system I colonized the AI took. And yet I came back for more, simply because, to a new player, it was challenging. That's what I wanted. I wanted a game where I didn't understand most of the things right off, where I could learn things as I went. No other game has held my attention for so long as SEIV has done and will continue to do. Strange though, 4 years after beginning to play, the AI seems almost easy...:P http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif