New Barbarian Kings mod
 

Using forced turmoil and light cavalry, and having neither the military of base T'ien Ch'i, nor the magic of Spring and Autumn, Barbarian Kings has the distinction of being likely the very worst theme.

This mod tries to make the khans and barbarian horsemen more worthwhile, you can download it here (thanks to Zen for the hosting).

I would appreciate any comments.

Re: New Barbarian Kings mod
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hrrmm, this statement intruiges me. I think I go give the theme a spin. I like trying out "underdogs".

Re: New Barbarian Kings mod
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hrrmm, this statement intruiges me. I think I go give the theme a spin. I like trying out "underdogs". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I find them one of the best theme ideas, and very fun to play in SP. My mod attempts to make them a serious consideration in MP as well.

Re: New Barbarian Kings mod
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">My first instinct is to point out Mictan, but you may be right on this one.

Re: New Barbarian Kings mod
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">My first instinct is to point out Mictan, but you may be right on this one. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Mictlan may not have the best troops, but it is a top notch summons nation. Forced +2 turmoil on the other hand, reduces income by around 50%, and Barbarian Kings has nothing at the moment to remotely make up for it.

Re: New Barbarian Kings mod
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Zen's hosting is temporary. Per Zen's request, I have permanently hosted the file at my site. The direct link is here.

Re: New Barbarian Kings mod
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Don't diss Mictlan. Mictlan owns you. They're one of my favorite nations.

Re: New Barbarian Kings mod
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Zen's hosting is temporary. Per Zen's request, I have permanently hosted the file at my site. The direct link is here. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thank you.

Re: New Barbarian Kings mod
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thank you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You're quite welcome.

Re: New Barbarian Kings mod
 

Would you be interested in my humble feedback?

Firstly, thanks for this mod. I like it! Too long have I had Barbarian Kings resting in peace.

The idea of the pillage bonus is perfect. Excellent!
I am not feeling so hot with the fear levels as they currently are, however. The Khan is now exactly as fearsome as an Abomination. I would tone his fear down to fear+1, and I would have the Barbs have Lesser Fear, not Fear +0.

Would you mind a tiny suggestion (which of course you could dismiss as idiotic)?
It could include:
- increasing their precision by 1 (they are excellent riders and at home upon their mounts, thus being able to shoot almost as well as foot-bowmen)
- perhaps adding lesser berserker ability to the Khan and/or the heavier horsemen (although they are at home on their horses and are thus excellent bowmen as well, they have evil tempers)
- Making Ceremony Masters stealthy +0 -- I think they deserve this, it could fit, and would give the Barbarians a slight amount of flexibility

Re: New Barbarian Kings mod
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks, this is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for.

You’re right about the cause fear being too much for thematic reasons, I think -1 for the horsemen and +1 for the khan is more appropriate. To make up for this I was thinking of raising the attack, morale and magic resistance slightly. The increased precision also seems like a good idea, it would be nice if they inflicted more damage before their charge.

I like the idea of a stealthy mage, but I can’t think of a good thematic reason for one.

As for berserk, I'm not sure if that would be a good thing. You don't wand a handfull of beserk horsemen faceing off with a superior force, I also dont want to make them too similar to the independant barbarians.

Re: New Barbarian Kings mod
 

Yes, that makes sense.
I still would go for lesser fear on the barbarian warriors (fear -3) -- I can't think of a reason why they should be *that* much more fearsome than a standard necromancer -- and fear +0 on the Khan -- that's still pretty fearsome, about as fearsome as some pretenders, and he has *very* easy access to a Helm of Horror.

No, you probably would not want a handful of berserk horsemen facing off a superior force, but I think it may fit thematically, and it would also cause you to make sure that those horsemen are watched well. Also, I think it might make sense -- they will fight to the death no matter what. Of course, I am talking about lesser beserk here (say, -2 or so), so there is no guarantee.
But perhaps +1 morale would do the job as well -- although the heavier Version already has 12 morale, which is very decent for a non-sacred troop.

Alternatively, what about this, a new unit, a swarthy two-handed-sword-wielding unit with decent morale (11), lowish protection and the lesser berserk ability?

I didnt mean a stealthy mage, I meant a stealthy priest (the ceremony master). But I think you are right -- perhaps this doesnt make sense thematically.

Thanks once again for all your effort!

Re: New Barbarian Kings mod
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I might take the cause fear down another level, since I suppose it makes a fear check every time someone attacks a horsemen in melee. Finding a new unit to add is difficult, since I was under the impression that the mongolians used only horsemen and troops from conquered lands.

There are some neat ideas regarding Barbarian Kings that cannot be implemented with modding at the moment. For instance, one idea of Zen's I liked very much, having horesmen and khans spawn automatically, perhaps realated to pillaging.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">A mod without new graphics is really quite easy; nontheless it's nice to know someone else is actually using the mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Re: New Barbarian Kings mod
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I believe that it actually takes place when the fearsome unit begins its turn, as the fear effect is a radiating aura like a cold aura, or the standard effect.

Re: New Barbarian Kings mod
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I believe that it actually takes place when the fearsome unit begins its turn, as the fear effect is a radiating aura like a cold aura, or the standard effect. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ah, I was under the impression it worked like awe. So does a higher fear rating make the area larger, make it harder to resist, or both?

Re: New Barbarian Kings mod
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Both. For normal fear, the area is the fear rating is grid squares. Every five points of feaer make the morale check one harder.

Re: New Barbarian Kings mod
 

I didnt know that; I thought that every 1 point of fear made the check 1 harder (but I suppose that would be too tough).