Supplies - Sending an army that will not starve ?
 

Hello,

is there a way to know how many supplies an army sent to a province will need ?

Imagine I have several armies in different provinces A, B, C, D ... and I send part of these armies to a province Z that I own. I can see the units I am sending by using the "y" key on province Z, but can I see how many supplies they will need ? I don't want to need more supplies that the province Z has.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starve ?
 

No, there isn't a quick and easy way to do it.

You just have to work out how much each army needs before you move 'em. Or you could build lots of supply producing items and then you'll never have to worry.

If you're playing SP, I advise putting supplies on the highest possible setting, since the AI never even attempts to avoid starving its own troops and it removes a bit of micro from your game.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

Thanks Sombre.

I was hoping there was a way to do it. But since there isn't, I think I'll take up your advice and crank up the supplies setting.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

You can figure out supply from the size of the units. I believe that a normal unit takes up 1 supply by its lonesome. Units with horses, and thus a bigger size unit, take up proportionally more supplies. The same thing is true for elephants, a size 6 unit notorious for creating supply problems.

That should help you get a good estimate of how many supplies you'll need. Note that any supply producing commanders, such as those with nature magic, will reduce the supply demand listed in a province for a given army, so it can mess up your calculations.

Jazzepi

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

IIRC, Unless it produces supply, has need not eat or any other random effects, a unit eats (size-1) supplies. (size 1 units still need 1 supply) So there's no need to be vague about supply consumption.

Approximating how much supply you need is also not that complicated. You can see how much units a commander leads because it is written in the Army Setup screen, and most of the time you will only have small variation in sizes of units, so its fairly easy (though a bit annoying) to use a calculator and make a quick calculation.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

I asked the question because I am playing Caelum, and their size 3 troops eat a lot of supplies (2 each, although they are weaker than humans).
Would it be a)possible and b)thematic to make a mod that gives all caelians supply(1). So they would need as many supplies as normal humans ?
After all, ulm soldier are much tougher and eat only 1 supply.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

But can Ulm fly over those crappy non supply provinces and get straight to the meat and potatoes??!!




...I thought not.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

If you wanted to do the mod, it could be done two ways:

1) changing Caelians to size 2. This would also make their formations tighter, and thus they'd be easier to kill via AoE spells. It would be out of line with similar creatures, as winged humanoids are considered one category larger than similar-sized humanoids without wings.

2) giving Caelians supplybonus 1, giving one supply for every two they eat.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

You can see how much supply you use in any province in the province description. What you can't see is how many sipplies a province you don't own has. Even with a scout, but I think spies can give you the info, and maybe your dominion or at least your dom if you're playing Arco. Not sure about scrying spells.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

Endoperez, I don't want to modify the size of the Caelians, it would change the nation to much (they wouldn't be so crap in melee anymore, so magic would be less essential and so on).

Supplybonus 1 is what I had in mind when I said supply(1). I didn't know what the syntax was. So I take it it is possible. Would it be thematic though ?

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

It would differ from the norm, so unless explained it wouldn't be thematic. If you can give a good reason, it could be.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

I think you can figure out how much supply a given army requires by moving it into a friendly province. Just note the supplies used in the provinces before and after the move. Of course, this is very little help, if any at all in determining what the supply situation will be when moving into an unfriendly province.

As for modding the game to minimize supply issues I think giving an additional supply bonus to commanders would cause the least disruption to the game mechanics that everyone above objects to. I have never figured out the thematic nature of the commander supply bonus. A lot of commanders, mainly mage types, have supply bonus, and I have never bothered to figure out why.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

Eat like a bird? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Nature magic gives 10 supply per level.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

I think Caelians taking only 1 supply each is fair enough. I mean everything is arguable thematically, but I think you have justification to change them when cavalry require the same amount of supplies and that's for a horse and a man.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

We could assume that the effort required to produce enough energy to fly is a lot more than to walk, so they need to eat more.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

Fatties.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

How about having the light caelians troops (armor of studded leather or less) use one supply, and having the heavier caelians (cuirass, hauberk... )use the current 2 supplies. All the archers and the light infantry would then use one supply.

That would make sense : leather armor is easy to fly with because it has a small weight, flying around with a bulky armor is tough work, so heavy troops need to eat plenty.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

I think just about anything that would encourage the use of actual Caelians as opposed to hordes of mammoths would be a good thing for theme ;-)

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

like giving the mammoths gluttony? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

The current supply model doesn't really make sense anyway, which is part of the justification for changing things to fit better gameplay.

Mammoths require 5 supplies, Caelians require 2. So three Caelians need more supplies than a mammoth? Caelins need the supplies of two humans, or a knight? Big eaters those Caelians, considering they're lighter and weaker than humans.

And I know people will say "But supplies don't just mean food, they mean all kinds of logistical requirements!" Ok then, explain why creatures that need not eat don't need any supplies, regardless of size.

It's fun to hear thematic arguments though because it's always possible to argue anything either way.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

Talking about changing things to fit better gameplay, how about giving the Caelians some form of missile protection. Considering that the wings are made of feathers, an arrow in the wings should not cause damage, right ?

So a caelian is size 3, a human size 2 --> the wings of caelian make up 33% of the caelian, and the body 66%. Would something like "Airshield 30%" or "Airshield 20%" make sense ?

It would protect to some measure against missile, but not at all against AoE spells. It seems sensible to me. What are your views ?

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

That's like saying that if you cut a dragon's clawtips off with a sword, it won't hurt, because they're just nails.

Every feather starts from flesh and bone, and if the feathers are cut or even just in the wrong order, flying is harder or even impossible. So no, I don't think that'd be a good reason to give them air shield.

I'd be for boosting their stats, though, at least defense. They can fly, and I'd imagine that'd be at least as helpful in battle as being mounted (faster movement, you are/can be higher) - and being mounted gives you +3 defence.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

Birds do eat a lot for their size(I feed some birds in my garden, and I witnessed a bird eat a handfull of grain, nice for something weighting grams), and they eat mainly grain, which is energy rich.

On the other hand, and apart from iron wielding ones, caelian troops are really crappy. Reducing the logistic problems would be nice, even if their troops would stay under used (did I mention their ultra-crappiness ?).

MA Order of Battle should be tweaked, because apart from sacreds and mammoths, it is like a loooong walk in the Desert of Joy : still nothing in sight worth mentionning.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

Endoperez, that's why I considered Airshield 30% and 20%.

At 30%, all the arrows in the wings will fail to do damage.
At 20%, some arrow in the wings will do damage (say, they hit the bone structure or something).

And it's not like caelians are uber units anyway. Even some airshield wouldn't make them overperwered.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

+ 3 defense due to flight would require to give it to all the flying units, or to introduce a notion of good/bad flyiers.

Re: Supplies - Sending an army that will not starv
 

I wouldn't mind that, if someone did it for me. It's not like Black Hawks, Great Eagles or Ziz are overpowered atm. The fliers who already have high innate defense (devils, frost fiends etc) wouldn't get the bonus, of course, or at least not to such extent.

It's like what I've suggested for experience: some units start "experienced" but get the same malus for their stats. Devils would start with 0 experience (as far as Hall of Fame is considered) but four stars, and their innate abilities would be lowered so that (innate + experience) would equal their current stats. The fliers with good defense already use their flight to good effect.

Any way, this has little to do with supplies, so unless someone is going to make a mod to boost Caelians or fliers in general, discussing the merits of this theory doesn't help anyone. I'm sure there's something I overlooked. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Caelians are hungry hungry hippos
 

Theory is for the weak...one year ago today I decided to do some investigative reporting regarding the Caelian need for supplies.


Frustrated by my Dominons 3 Caelian unit's constant and seemingly insatiable need for food I decided I would get to the bottom of their bottomless hunger (Clearly no easy feat). The first step was to become like the Caelians. I toiled away in my basement to construct wings of my own. Using the winged harness utilized by the Dominons 3 Icarid as a visual guide I set about fashioning a stylish yet utilitarian method through which I would ideally be able to ascend to the coldest mountain peaks. After 4 days of somewhat hard work I gave up and just ordered Icarid wings off of the internet. 2-3 weeks later they arrived and I was flying high.


With the first part of my plan complete all that was left was to go eat...to prove that even with the ability of flight and the possession of wings I would require no more supply than normal. I took to the sky and was headed to the local supermarket when out of the corner of my eye I saw a field and a pair of cows. For some reason I had to go to them, I was...compelled. I cruised to the ground at lightning speed; my mouth watering as I gazed at the two cows. My mind was going a mile a minute; confusion over what I was doing or intended to do gave way to an insurgence of hunger that I had never felt before. The ground rushed up at me, I could see the whites of Harry's eyes (Harry was the bigger cow...I did not bother naming the other more slender cow; he was insignificant. All that mattered was that Harry was fat slow and delicious). I hit the ground next to Harry - a misjudged killing blow due to my lack of flying experience. The thunderous beating of my wings startled the cows and they both ran away, mooing in terror. Most fortunately for me though, Harry tripped over a rock and died a swift merciful death.


I made a small campfire a began roasting a section of Harry's left flank. The meat had been cooking for less than a minute before, overcome with hunger I wolfed it down. I turned my gaze back on the downed cow, hungry for more. What happened next is a fuzzy haze of red and brown; it was as if my consciousness left my body. When I woke up I found myself lying on my back staring up at the sun.

I tried to sit up but found myself unable...something was lying on my stomach. One look at the offending organ proved that my initial conclusion was wrong...I was in fact pregnant and the baby was kicking. I rolled over onto my side was able to push myself up, my stomach swinging wildly too and fro. Upon standing a disturbing sight was brought to my eyes...the body of the noble cow Harry was gone, replaced by a cow skeleton picked clean by what I could only assume was a roving pack of hyenas...and then it hit me. I had eaten Harry...all of him...and judging by the sun it had taken me just under an hour. I was hungry again, allready. I turned away to find the other cow and tripped over the same rock that had felled Harry. The sky rolled up before my eyes as the ground rolled up to meet me. Bits of wood and feathers flew up around me as my flying harness cracked under my weight. My hunger disappeared. Later that day I burned those accursed wings and later that week I paid for liposuction.


So now, I ask that instead of cursing and questioning the Caelian need for constant feeding I suggest that you instead feel pity for the noble bird people. Their hunger brings great pain and suffering, they pay a higher price for their wings that I was willing to. With bellies so full it's a wonder they can fight at all.

Re: Caelians are hungry hungry hippos
 

Revolution, that was hilarious. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Caelians are hungry hungry hippos
 

After such a scientific study, it is clear that we will have to rely on our mages to win the day, during the two hours a day they are not eating. Their belies shouldn't prevent them to pound the ennemy with lightning.(fried cow for everyone).