Stacking bracelets for a eath bless
 

Ok, so I'm doing some test games for strategies to be used in a MP game I've just joined. I noticed LA Gath's Kohen Gadols have three misc slots and I get to wondering how best to leverage that. I heard that an earth bless stacks on bracelets of protection in addition to normal armor so I figure lets try that and see how it goes. Boy does it!

Basic protection: 2
+2 for earth magic
15 protection for fire plate
3 bracelets of protection +2 (their normal bonus does not stack)

For an unbuffed protection of 23.
Lay down the earth blessing....protection 37!
Legions of steel put me to 40....not much point in even casting invulnerability...

So then I decide I can't in good consciousness use this. But the other reason I had been thinking about it is the quite awesome Hashmal has no armor slot and I thought it would be very nice to leverage an earth bless for them to get some armor through the bracelet.

So I was wondering, what is peoples impression of what constitutes a gratuitous exploit that should be avoided in friendly games?

Re: Stacking bracelets for a eath bless
 

Seems to me that if you stack all 3 bracers then you lose the benefit of magic amulets, amulets of luck, etc. And really, even at a protection of 27 normal troops have to get really lucky to hurt you. So, the thing you are really worried about is thugs and magic killing spells. Thugs can use armor negating weapons and mages can still use paralyze, etc. so, I say go for it. If you want the obnoxiously high you still have to pay the price of other item slots.

Brace yourself
 

I don't much mind if people use it, but I do hope it get fixed.

Re: Brace yourself
 

I wouldn't be bothered by someone else doing it but wouldn't stack bracelets myself - feels weak.

Re: Brace yourself
 

Is true - but this also works with
Krupps, with cats, with skull (as I recall) and other items.
This was perhaps the weakest exploitation.

Re: Brace yourself
 

Mmh, to the n00b (me) it seems that this is the normal trade-off between specialization (being very strong in one thing) and versatility (being decent in all or at least many).
Stacking 2 bracelets gives surely some protection but you're giving up more MR, some immunity, more reinvig... oh damn, I don't even have to say all the wonderful things we do with misc slots, it always seems we can't have enough ^^
So to me, it's ok, one of the equipment choices of the game. You can stack 2 items of the same kind, you will have more (a lot with a synergy like Baalz talked about) attack/defence/protection - but you lack now some other kinds of protection or abilities that the enemy can easily use against you.
Just my opinion ^_^

Re: Brace yourself
 

I think that any magic item which stacks with another of the same type is wrong to use.

Please note that I am not against using several items which give the same effect just multiples of the exact same item.

Re: Brace yourself
 

Well i use the bracelets only with the E9 bless, without it the effect is too small. The other slot goes for luck and a possible third slot would be MR bonus or something equal.

I don't think 3 bracelets make sence, the bonuses don't stack perfectly. With 1 you already have a good enough protection against most of troops and against threats like AP, AN or mage spells its quite useless to have even 1.

Re: Brace yourself
 

I think using 1 with earth bless is absolutely fine and I wouldn't feel that annoyed if someone used 3, because it isn't horribly unfair or hard to counter.

It is something that should be fixed though, imo.

Re: Stacking bracelets for a eath bless
 

This is, in my opinion, a fairly minor problem, because there are far more important uses for misc slots than stacking armor. It is a bug, which I should add to the shortlist. Fortunately its effects are minor compared to the since fixed bug which allowed stacking magic boosters and other items.

Re: Stacking bracelets for a eath bless
 

Wouldnt "hard to counter" mean that it goes on the list as things that you might use against other "hard to counter" tactics? Taking out all of the "hard to counter" things in the game would seem to be counter to balance and a never ending degradation. There will always be something in the hard to counter condition no matter how many you take out.

I think the game benefits from having things that force a nation to have to change their entire strategy in order to build up a counter. And have to balance going too far. Such as shifting to buying all priests to combat an invasion by Ermor. I know that some people would prefer to march their strategically built armies entirely across the map without having to change but Im not sure thats Dom3-ish.
Maybe this comes down to the game that the strategy players want vs the tactical players.
IMHO

Now if it was "impossible to counter" then I could get on board with this.

Re: Stacking bracelets for a eath bless
 

Again, no one is suggesting taking out "hard to counter" things. In fact, this time it was suggested that it was minor because it wasn't hard to counter.

This particular issue seems to have nothing to do with strategy vs tactics or any other broad issues, except maybe the "anything the game engine allows is good" vs "play as intended, avoid exploiting the broken bits" arguments.

Earth bless stacking on non-armor/helmet protection items seems like, at the very least, an unintended consequence of the changes in the Earth bless and armor mechanics for Dom3. Opposition to using it seems to come from that viewpoint not from any real balance issues

Re: Stacking bracelets for a eath bless
 

Has it been confirmed that this is not just a screen display issue? You should test it and see if your "Prot37" unit really is unhittable. I've always been suspicious that the reported protection is a display bug, and the actual protection is internally correct.

Re: Stacking bracelets for a eath bless
 

Even 40 protection doesn't make you immune to damage. I tested a 40 prot unit against indies and he regularly took 3-4 points of damage from broadsword hits. He had 0 fatigue, 0 enc. 40 head, 40 body.

So testing it in game would be a bit unreliable.

Re: Stacking bracelets for a eath bless
 

Oh and Gandalf - are you posting in the wrong thread or something? Your reply seems to bear no relation to what's being discussed.

Re: Stacking bracelets for a eath bless
 

Uh uh it would be hilarious if that is true Sombre, because I so agree with him on this topic and in general http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif really!! ^_^

Re: Stacking bracelets for a eath bless
 

I would like to know what the max prot is you could get from this with all the items mentioned

(and which part of it is "illegal" or buggy protection)

Re: Stacking bracelets for a eath bless
 

Max protection is 40 and I had no problems getting Niefel SCs at that value.

Re: Stacking bracelets for a eath bless
 

At the least the +4 from Earth Bless stacking from multiple bracers is a bug. I'd consider getting +4 from the bracers on top of the standard +4 from wearing armor to be a bug, but that may be a minority view.

The real strength of this probably doesn't come in with massive protection on late game SCs but cheap low-fatigue high protection on early game recruitable thugs. Y

Re: Stacking bracelets for a eath bless
 

It seems to me that if you get more than one copy of the earth bless bonus, regardless of what you're wearing, it's a bug. It should be (and was almost certainly intended to be) 0-1 depending on what you're wearing.

Re: Stacking bracelets for a eath bless
 

Mmh, i think there must be a reason if they were made stackable, I'd wait for enlightenment http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif At least theydon't seem me unbalanced or too hard to counter someway, do you (and why)?

Re: Stacking bracelets for a eath bless
 

It's unintended. We've been through this with KO before in another thread.

Re: Stacking bracelets for a eath bless
 

As long as the game allows this I think it is a legitimate strategy. That said, I'd really like to see the issue patched.

Re: Stacking bracelets for a eath bless
 

I wonder if it would really be that hard to make it not be armor dependent?

I mean, worst that happens, is the +4 Prot gets added to the Base Prot, so that it affects both Body and Head (I may be crazy, but I'm assuming that's why it's added to armor, so that helmets get it as well...).

I know the math with Base Prot + Armor Prot is a little wonky, so it may not make everyone happy to change it that way..... But it may be better than being able to get +16 Prot on a unit with 3 misc slots. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Stacking bracelets for a eath bless
 

Prot = Base Prot + Armor Prot * (40 - Base Prot)/40. So if your Base Prot is 20 (half of 40) you only get half of your Armor Prot on top of that. Equivalently, Prot = Armor Prot + Base Prot * (40 - Armor Prot)/40.

-Max