winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Nice thanks, btw, stick this to the main forum for greater visibility

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Thanks Don.

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Thanks :)

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hello All

There seems to be a possible issue with this OOB fix (or perhaps the v4.0 patch, though I doubt it) as I have had quite a few report from PBEM players at The Blitz getting OOB error messages when using the newest patch and OOB fix.

I have no file to pass along at this stage as I have no issues so far, but I have fielded a lot of complaints.

Has anyone else had any OOB error / security type error messages when playing PBEM with v4.0 + OOB fix?

Cheers
Sgt Walrus

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

I am guessing the problem is both players have ver 4.0 but only one the fix.
Perhaps a version 4.01 is in order to stop people having to ask.

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

It is not necessary to place winSP in a folder " Program files ".
In Windows7 there are with it small problems. For example games it is difficult to insert into folder PBEM new Save-files.
I know, that it can be corrected, but for not skilled players the best variant to place game in a separate folder on disk C or D.

Also because of it it is difficult to replace OOB-files.
From it also there are problems.

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. I could have just let this pass for a year but decided it was better to fix this. Do people want LaGG-3's carrying 6 1000 pound bombs or worse, a R-Z carrying 24 ??? THAT is why we issued the fix so we wouldn't get complaints of unfair advantage do to a simple OOB error.

Now that everyone is aware there can be conflict I would suggest a notice be posted informing people there have been corrected OOB's posted , with a link to the files, and that players are responsible for letting their opponents know if they have installed it or not.

Also, lets be clear on this, this fixed only involved THREE OOB's not the entire set

Poland
Russia
USMC

If anyone is PBEMing and the battles involve one or more of those OOB's then the players need to ask the simple question.... "have you installed the corrected OOB's ?"

And NO we are not going to furth compound the problem by issuing a 4.01 EXE and a patch for three OOB's

Don

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Yes, I know. We tell people that right in the patch installer. Putting the game in Program Files was not my idea. That was a requirement of Shrapnel. I was prepared right from the start to have it installed directly into the C: drive and had I been allowed to do that a huge number of headaches would have been averted.

Don

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Don

I have posted at The Blitz (before I posted here) to all players that there was a new patch (v4.0) and also an OOB fix.
I linked to this site (where the files live)and also cut and pasted the installing instructions into the post at the Blitz.

Short of going to everyone's house and holding their hand while they install I do not know what more I can do.

Please take this seriously, it's not due to negligence on my, or our players, behalf.

Since I made the earlier post, I have been collecting data.

Since the v4.0 patch came out, there have been many mentions of error messages re. OOB...player one obat has changed and similar.

I have only one v4.0 (with no OOB fix) game going and as far as I know, there are no error messages. However, my opponent is a Spanish speaker and our communications are limited.

I have also run a test with a long time PBEM player. We have both v4.0 and v4.0+OOB fix installed.
I started both battles, made it to P1 T1 with no error...but just got the files back from Vesku and he is saying that both games are showing this message
player one obat has changed

EDIT: On opening my T2, there are error messages in both v4.0 and v4.0+OOB fix that P1 has a 'changed OOB'or similar.
When I opened T1 previously, there were no error messages.
It only seems to happen after P2 has opened their T1 (as opposed to the initial file swap and setting up of PW etc)

I know for a fact that I have changed nothing in my OOB (I always use stock OOBs) since v3.5
For both games to be showing the error shows that it is not just to do with the OOB fix.

There seems to be some sort of...dare I say it...bug here somewhere.

Games set up using Basic Security can be played by just ignoring the messages...but if the players wish to use Full Security...then they are stuck.

I attach both save game files.
My p/w for these games is axel

If you need Vesku's p/w...let me know and I will get it to you.

I hope that I provided enough info to prompt to you to have a look and see what is going on.
Please note that this is not some snafu due to the incompetence of the gamers...you know that I have been playing this game PBEM for years, and so have most of the guys that are recording these issues.

Regards
Jason - Sgt. Walrus

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Given you have been a playtester IDK HOW you could even SUGGEST we don't take things like this "seriously" Give me a break



just to be clear. You have one game going with stock v4.0 OOB and another entirley different install of the game with the three altered OOB's

Correct ??

What you don't tell me is which nations you are playing with for this test game ( yes it's relevant ) and you don't tell me if both you and your test opponent have installed the corrected OOB's into the default OOB folder as well as the main OOB folder.

I also don't know if the bulk of these reports started before or after the OOB fix was released and given the fix and the patch were close together the possibility of one side or the other not having upgraded their game before starting a PBEM is high.

So far what I have is one confirmed report that two stock ver4 OOB games are working OK without a problem and no reports on this forum of any unusual PBEM problems.


Don

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hi Don

just to be clear. You have one game going with stock v4.0 OOB and another entirley different install of the game with the three altered OOB's

Yes, for the test files I sent you, exactly.


What you don't tell me is which nations you are playing with for this test game ( yes it's relevant ) and you don't tell me if both you and your test opponent have installed the corrected OOB's into the default OOB folder as well as the main OOB folder.

Scen 000 Test Scenario, Sept '43. P1 Germany, P2 Russia. I am P1.
As far as I am aware, my opponent has installed exactly the two versions that I have installed. We were using v4.0 for one test, and v4.0+OOB fix for the other. That was the point of the test.


I also don't know if the bulk of these reports started before or after the OOB fix was released and given the fix and the patch were close together the possibility of one side or the other not having upgraded their game before starting a PBEM is high.

All the reports of obat error messages started getting to my attention after the v4.0 patch release and during the release of the OOB fix.
I was away on tour as the OOB fix was released and wasn't aware of it until my return. At the same time I became aware of the OOB fix, I started hearing of Obat error messages...thus my initial confusion as to what was causing the problem, the initial patch up , or the following OOB fix.

I am running a tournament at the Blitz. The first round was in v3.0 (no obat error messages), the next three rounds were in v3.5 (no obat error messages). I instructed all the players to use the v4.0 patch and the OOB fix before the most recent round. Most of them are experienced PBEM players and experienced with patching up your games. (quite a few obat error messages). I cannot be %100 sure that every one has patched up and also used the OOB fix...however I do find it strange that suddenly I am hearing about the same issue only after the v4.0 release. The common ground seems to be the v4.0 patch, not the OOB fix.

The recent tests that I tried have been carefully done in v4.0 both with and without the OOB fix. Same result. 'Obat error P1'

So far what I have is one confirmed report that two stock ver4 OOB games are working OK without a problem and no reports on this forum of any unusual PBEM problems.

I would have to disagree.
I have reported to this forum that I have personally had error message when there should have been none, both in stock v4.0 game and also v4.0+OOB fix, and that i have also had other reports of the same nature.
All from experienced SP PBEM players, and by experienced, I means years of experience.

I have provided you with all the evidence that I have at my disposal. I am also trying some test with another player with me as P2.
I will post that information as soon as I have it.


Given you have been a playtester IDK HOW you could even SUGGEST we don't take things like this "seriously" Give me a break

This is why I said that.
From you previous post...

Now that everyone is aware there can be conflict I would suggest a notice be posted informing people there have been corrected OOB's posted , with a link to the files, and that players are responsible for letting their opponents know if they have installed it or not.

I know how hard you guys work...do you seriously think I would have bothered posting this info here without having done everything I could to have averted any issue with these patches and fixes? As you know, I have been PBEMing SP CAMO games at the Blitz for a long time (nine years FYI)...dealing with patch up etc is not exactly a new thing for the guys there.

There is something up with the new patch.
I am just trying to help find out what it is.

What other info would help?
If you wish to send a game file to me, or get me to send one to you...let me know.
What version, what save slot etc.
No worries...just trying to help.

Regards
jason

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hi
Just got a file back from a different player.

V4.0+OOB fix.
I am player 2 (ANZAC)
The first obat error message arrived as I opened my T1.

Sorry, I do not know which nation or year my opponent was. I am trying to find out now.
My p/w=axel
His p/w=adam

Here is the file for me to begin T1.

Cheers
jason

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hi
Perhaps I can preempt some other questions.

I have not changed anything about my computer hardware, nor general software between v3.5 and v4.0.

I patched up in exactly the same way I have successfully patched up ever other patch you have released. Exactly.

I have one game going in v4.0 which has shown no error messages.
I have had error message since then using that same install.

I have a second install of v4.0 that has the OOB fix.
It has shown obat error for each game I have tested on it. Two different players so far.

Cheers
Jason

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

I am pre-occupied with modern tank gun penetration data ATM but Andy will be looking into this.

When I said we have not been getting reports of problems I mean a LOT of reports. One or two people having problems right after a release is normal. Getting ten or twenty people chiming in saying that's what's happening to them as well is not normal and we haven't had a flood of persistant complaints about this

Don

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

I'd like a copy of the actual OOBS that you both are using for the testing. That should rule out whether or not someone has a different set. (Plus allied OOBs if someone bought foreign troops).

Also - a note of the game version number as shown on the main screen for each player. (It is at the centre of the bottom of the screen).

cheers
Andy

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

I have just tried that save game - which gave a player 1 OOB problem.

As a test, I set up ANZAC v Japan in 42 and tried a left hand v right hand PBEM, and with no problems.

Therefore I am tending to lean towards an OOB mismatch in this case as a first guess.

Cheers
Andy

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

That would be Sweden vs. Anzac in 1944.

And it's interesting if it's an OOB mismatch. Never touched my OOB's except for patching to the different versions (checked and it said 4.0) and then installing the new 3 Ob's in the folder.

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Did you patch the game and install OBs before you started the new game, not during the game & thus nuking the secure PBEM?

Andy

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hi Andy. The upgrading to 4.0 and installation of the new ob's according to the instructions were made first, and after that I set up the battle. This was just a test battle that I sent to Walrus to see if we could trigger the error message, and alas, we did.

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

The message is only received if an OOB is in conflict.

But neither ANZAC nor Sweden OOBS were affected by this OOB update. So I am at a loss to understand what happened.

Each of you should check that your OOB checksums for the 2 OOBS are in agreement. I knocked up a utility for this purpose (it does any .obf files). It may be handy for any future PBEM woes ;)!

You can compare an OOB set by changing dir and pressing the generate checksums button again. Right click on the memo field and "select all" then right click and "copy" will put the memo text into the windows paste buffer and so you can drop the results into anything you need (email etc).

Cheers
Andy

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Thanks. I copied mine into a text file. I'll pass it over to Walrus to see how it compares.

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hi Andy
Thanks for your help.

I DL the checksum app...I get an error (ironically).

It says it cannot run because VCL50.BCP is missing / cannot be found.

Not sure what is up there.
I run XP Pro SP2. Firefox 3 browser.

This is annoying as I cannot order anyone else to help out with this.

Cheers
Jason

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hi Andy
Seeing as that checksum app didn't work for me.
I will send my OOBs to you.

The first is for v4.0 stock.
Both my v4.0 and v4.0+OOB fix shows the version information as
winspww2 V4.0-CD

I have zipped just the main .obf files...not the custom nor default folders.
I assume I have sent the ones you were interested in.

Hope this helps.

For the record, these should be identical.
One install was created from the other (full copy of game folder into a new dir).
I always create new installs like that and it works just fine for me for all my previous ww2 and MBT games.

Cheers
Jason

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Just sent you a game Jason

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hi Guys
Thanks to Fred's help I have managed to generate data from my v4.0 and v4.0+OOB Fix
I was not aware that I had to extract the .exe into a SP game directory.
maybe that was obvious, but I didn't pick it.
Cheers Fred :-)

I attach them here.

I checked and there is no difference at all between our two sets of figures.
Only checked V4.0+OOB fix, as that was the only data that Fred provided.

So...the OOB mismatch seems to be fading away as the source of the problem?

Fred and I are trying another test with the OOB Fix using the newest OOB changes (USSR and USMC) to see if anything different happens with that.

Cheers
Jason

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hi
Sorry, that was Imp that helped with the Checksum thing.
Cheers John...sorry for the confusion.
Test game files are sent.

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

The OOBS match in checksum, but that was not the checksum the test game that failed was returning (stored with the original setup).

I just ran through the code on the off chance that somewhere something was assigning the mob0_CheckSum or mob1_CheckSum to the wrong sort of variable - but all places use a long, as they should do.

So - assuming that you are using the same EXE (which should not matter since that checksum code has not changed since 2001 or so, nor has the encryption or basic file structure - and no new data blocks have been added since the Opfire block 2 years back or so).

So I cannot think of any reason for failure, other than someone having had a slip-up with the OOB at some point.

- Are both of you using the same operating system, or is one using say 64 bit windows 7?

- Are you both using the same file compression utility to pass the files (WinRAR or WinZip or whatever).

- And just as a final thought - no player is trying to "share" a PBEM slot for several ongoing secure mode games?. That is a recipe for disaster.

Cheers
Andy

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hi Andy

I cannot speak for the other guys.

- Are both of you using the same operating system, or is one using say 64 bit windows 7?

I use XP SP2 as my OS.
Have done for all previous versions of Panthers since you went to windows versions.

other than someone having had a slip-up with the OOB at some point.

No chance, I never touch the OOBs...always played stock. It's the best plan for PBEM.

- Are you both using the same file compression utility to pass the files (WinRAR or WinZip or whatever).

I use winzip to send. Always have. Never any trouble with the tens of different PBEM players over the last 9 years.
I sometimes get .rar in the mail...they don't make any difference at my end. Never had any issues.
These file were all made via winzip as far as I can see.

- And just as a final thought - no player is trying to "share" a PBEM slot for several ongoing secure mode games?. That is a recipe for disaster.

Not at my end. I have multiple installs of the CD version, so no need for that. Not aware of Fred doing that for these tests.

So...I will continue to pass data, at least for one more test with a different player.
It is most perplexing as it is a rash of error messages since v4.0. Impossible for everyone to suddenly be screwing around with their normally solid set-ups and ways of doing PBEM.
As I am a moderator at Blitz SP, I am always watching the boards, and I have never noted as many reports of this sort of thing before.

BTW...all my (3) MBT v 4.5 games are behaving rock solid while all this has been going on...so if it were some computer based issue (compression utilities, OS etc.) surely I would be seeing issues there too.

OK...cheers
jason

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Well, I haven't messed with the OOB's other than installing the patch. I had OOB issues with the 4.0 version, w/o the extra OOB patch. Since the previous game was Sweden vs. Anzac it shouldn't be affected anyway by the OOB patch if I understand things right?

I've managed to install the previous patches successfully and played a significant number of PBEM's without ever seeing OB errors. I'm not playing multiple games and the 000 slot was only used for the test game. I'm never playing 'full security' games and stick with 'basic security' since it seems more stable. I've installed 4.0 on two of my SPWW2 installations (yes, these were upgraded to the latest patch before 4.0 before installing) and both of these show the error message.

I run Win XP, latest upgrade, WinZip for sending the files (which always worked thus far).

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

This is just my view somehow people are mucking up bundling the checksum facility along with a text document of what the results should be for both v4 & v4 & the fix which will only have 3 diffrences will allow checking by that person if a problem arises.

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hi All

I really have no idea what you just said there Imp.
You need to use some full-stops (periods for you I guess) to help that make sense. :D

Anyway.
Andy...here is the file from my test with Imp. It showed an error 'P1 Obat.' This version was the v4.0 + OOB fix.

I am P2 and this is the file as I got it back from Imp.
This would be my T1.
My p/w is Fred.
USSR v USMC, normal battle set up.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
jason

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hi Andy

Here is another error.
This time it is Standard v4.0
I am P2, Fred Fjun set the battle up. We are ANZAC and Sweden, same as the previous test with Fred in v4.0+OOB fix.

Error showed up after I opened this file to play R2 T1.

So.
I have now done these tests, all having the exact same result.
Versus Fred.
We have done test in V4.0 and v4.0+OOB fix.
We have test with both of us setting up as P1.
ANZAC v Sweden

Versus Imp.
V4.0+Fix with him as P2 USSR v USMC

I really do not know what else I can do.
I know of at least three of four other pairs of players that have just had these error messages when playing my tourney game in V4.0+Fix.

So...as I said earlier, there is something going on for sure.
There is no way that suddenly multiple experienced PBEM SP players have all started making the exact same mistake (or having the same computer problems etc.)
The common factor with all this is the new v4.0 version.

I wish I could help more, but my time is loimited.

Please let me know if there is something more I can do.

Cheers
Jason

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Do you see the problem if you play yourself "right hand vs left hand" on the same computer?

(I will have to try transferring the file between 2 different installs on the same computer tomorrow)

If not then it must be something to do with the transmission.

Andy

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hi Andy

Just did a left hand - right hand as you suggested.
I had zero errors.
I tried both my stock v4.0 and the OOB fix.

I will try between 2 different install next.

In the meantime, I created a PBEM to send to you to try.

Save slot 010

Stock v4.0
scen 000

Email it back if that's easier.
jason@sgtwalrus.com

Cheers
jason

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hi Andy
More data.

I am just starting a test with Imp using the v4.0+OOB Fix but trying it with full Security.
More info to follow.

Just out of interest.
I tried a left hand - right hand test between two installs.
They were not identical installs though.
One is stock v4.0, the other id v4.0 (cloned from the first) but has the OOB fix.

Now, it threw up a 'Player 2 obat error' that was quite differently worded than the common error we have been getting previously. also it shows a P2 error, not P1 like all the other error messages.
It also appeared as soon as i tried to enter a pw for P2.
This is much earlier than the error we have been hunting which only seems to appear as P1 plays T1 IIRC.

So...it seems that the slightly different OOB between these two versions (just the three changed obat files, everything else is stock.) gets an error message very quickly...as soon as P2 opens the game. This is quite different from the error we are hunting.
The error we are trying to sort out does not appear until the files have been passed back and forward a couple of time.
It allows p/w set up and buy and deploy but then appears when the game proper has started.

Most strange.

Cheers
jason

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Now this is pretty interesting. I tried this one:

1. Starting the game. Anzac vs. Sweden in -44. Basic security. 4.0 without OB fixes to rule out the possibility that I'm installing the 3 new ob's in an odd way and screwing up all other ob's in the progress. I kept the game running and went back and forth two turns without any issues, while keeping SPWW2 running and just clicking in the game to switch between players. Seemed to work.

2. Now I exited the program, zipped the files (WinZip like I always did and which always worked previously) unzipped in the same directory thus overwriting the save files. Starting the same again, and tried to enter as Anzac and got the error.

3. I played on one turn opened the game as Sweden, without turning off the program, and the error disappeared. Exited the program.

4. Zippped again, unzipped and overwrote the save files, started the game, and the error occured again.

And no, I didn't go in and edit my OB's meanwhile. All these maneuvers were done using the exact same installation.

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hi Andy.

Ok..interesting data.

Imp and I just tested v4.0+OOB fix but using Full security.
No error. I am P2 and just played T1.
USSR v USMC

I upload the file as I got it to play that turn. pw=axel.
By now the other tests had error messages.

Possible Basic Security issue?

We just created the exact same situation where we got an error...and changing just the security setting, we got no error.

Anyway...hope that helps.

Cheers
Jason

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

To Clarify.

Test game against opponent with only diffrence being security basic fails after deployment phase.
Full security as only change seems fine.

Playing against self on same install again full works fine.
Basic works fine so long as you keep the game open.
If you shut the game between loads it fails
"BASIC SECURITY WARNING! - Changes have been detected in Player 1's Obat file"

Hope that helps does seem its Basic security thats messing about.

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

basic security is already subject of a spurious OOB error in the recently released EXE. The published work around till we release a new EXE is to ignore OOB errors in basic mode for now. The new EXE already fixes the BASIC mode OOB checksum error.

What I hae been trying to sort out is the assertion that secure mode is showing an unexplained OOB error.

Now - please tell me if you guys have been using SECURE mode PBEM and seeing the problem?. Because all my testing has been in SECURE mode since that was the reported error (as I read the posts)...

(The current 4.05 EXE certainly has no problems in either SECURE or BASIC security as determined by my testing & debug tracing. But it has the routine for storing basic mode OOB checksums called in the correct places)

Andy

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hi Andy. Just so I get this right - what you are saying is that these bugs are already known and there is an unreleased .exe file where the problems have been solved already. So this is a really a non-issue and we only have to wait for the next release/fix to come out?

A follow up question - is this bug causing any harm/problems in the actual gameplay, apart from showing the error message?

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hi Andy

All my errors in recent PBEMs, and all my tests...excluding the very last one with Imp...have been using Basic Security.

I am sure that we mention this earlier in this thread. Appologies if we didn't.

If there is a fix coming for this, excellent.
I will post at The Blitz to just ignore the error messages when using Basic Security and that there is a fix on the way.

Cheers
Jason

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

What you said was this.....


Given we have already posted info on the forum about the basic security OOB error messages that were to be ignored what else were we to "assume" but these were secure games giving the error messages BECAUSE you said "Basic Security can be played by just ignoring the messages" which is exactly what we said when we told people about the known basic security message error

We all just spent hours of wasted effort. You testing something we've already reported as a known error that should be ignored and us re-testing secure games.

So NO you didn't make it clear these were basic security games

Don

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Don

When I first made a post on this issue, I had looked around the forum and had not seen anything about the Basic security error in v4.0.
My intent here was not to waste your time, nor Andy's, nor Fred or Imps...and especially not mine.

If I had seen something that looked like the information I needed I wouldn't have made my initial post.

we have already posted info on the forum about the basic security OOB error messages that were to be ignored

Where is this thread? Nowhere obvious, that's for sure. It wasn't just me that missed this, both Imp and Fjun use this forum and neither of them was aware that there was a security issue already discussed / posted here..

Also...I did not know that the issue we were having was a security issue. I was initially under the impression it was to do with the OOB fix, and wasn't sure about anything really as I was getting conflicting info...some games working others not etc.
It is obvious now that the confusion was in part that some games were Full security, and others basic. However, some games were stock v4.0 and others +OOB fix. There was some confusion in general.
From Andy's post #16, all the conversation was about OOB patches , which was why we all focused our testing in that direction

I rarely visit this forum now, as opposed to when I used to game test here, as I am very busy. I don't come here and make annoying posts about arcane penetration issues or rare unit problems. I play this game almost exclusively PBEM, I give my limited spare time to moderate a forum where we play you game. I endorse your game to everyone who is interested. My posts here are intended to help with communication between the players of this game, and you guys, the hard working designers.
Yet I feel like I am being berated for being a time wasting idiot who has not got a clue.

Perhaps when I asked this question in my initial post..


Has anyone else had any OOB error / security type error messages when playing PBEM with v4.0 + OOB fix?

...one of you guys might have pointed me at the thread to do with this known v4.0 security issue. Your assumptions that I must have read X thread relating to issue Y didn't really help with us all wasting our time either.

Your first post (#8) was just full of insinuations that our problems were just due to incompetence and lack of communication between players at the Blitz.
I did everything I could from that point to test with other Blitz PBEMers and pass on anything useful under the mistaken impression that I was being helpful and constructive...my bad.

My unfortunate comment..

but if the players wish to use Full Security...then they are stuck.

...was not due to testing but to an assumption that if an error came up in Basic security, then the same problem would cause Full security would stop the game. A bad assumption when the actual problem was with Basic security itself. I wish I had said "but I have not tested a full security game yet to see if I get an error"...perhaps that would have save our time.
My bad.

Just FYI. When players at the Blitz come up with an OOB issue, or game play thing they would liked looked at...I always post up to say that they should get in touch with you guys here and to make sure you have saved games file and good data so you guys don't have your time wasted.

I quite often get answers back that they don't like to post here at Shrapnel as they just end up copping a dose of attitude and are generally treated with less than politeness for their efforts at helping bring an issue to your attention.
I have always assumed that this was an over-reaction...but now, I would have to say that I agree.

All I have done is try my best to help out our small community.
I feel like I have been publicly treated like an idiot and general time waster....thanks for that.

I will always endorse this game to anyone as the best ww2 tactical game going IMO, and I will forever be grateful for the massive combined efforts of you and Andy to keep this game alive and growing for so very long, but I have to say that I will be very hesitant about pointing anyone with a query or question to this forum in the future.
That is a real shame.

Jason

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hi Don. An idea to avoid these things and save work and time for everyone could be to have a sticky "Known issues"-thread.

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

I think the confusion started with your paragraph

Which looks like you already knew about the basic mode PBEM workaround published in the post at http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44539 ( "Games set up using Basic Security can be played by just ignoring the messages").

The highlighted part makes it seem as if you were having a similar brand-new and unreported OOB checksum problem with secure mode. And that is why Don and I were debugging secure mode (which works fine) and not basic mode.

The basic PBEM mode security OOB mismatch error is already known and reported in the forums - and has already been fixed for MBT and WW2. The WW2 EXE with the fix will be released some time after the MBT patch which we are currently working on is out the door.

Andy

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hi Andy

I have to disagree.
The confusion started when I started to get a bunch of players reporting security error messages and no-one seemed to have an answer for the issue, neither at the Blitz nor at Shrapnel.

I agree that my general confusion as to what was happening didn't help you guys when you were trying to help me / us out...but your assumptions were as wrong as mine...therefore we both contributed to that being an over long and pointless exercize.

In the end, you two had the information I needed all along. I was in the dark from moment one.
That's life I guess...and I am happy to cop half the blame (and Imp and Fjun I guess).

As for the link to the published work around for the issue.
I think the link is the wrong one as it doesn't mention the quote you gave.
Anyway, it is buried in the TO&E page and in that thread there is only this mention of a resolution to what seemed to be being discussed as a PBEM Campaign problem. In fact, the first line of your quote below (post #11) is completely incorrect and if I had read it before my initial post...I would have been none the wiser and probably more confused.


Stand-alone PBEM games (in simple mode security) - system is working OK.
PBEM campaigns - the checksums are not being passed. Bug confirmed .
So for PBEM campaigns, ignore the message for now till we fix it.

When you say..

The highlighted part makes it seem as if you were having a similar brand-new and unreported OOB checksum problem with secure mode.

In reference to me saying..

Games set up using Basic Security can be played by just ignoring the messages...but if the players wish to use Full Security...then they are stuck.

..I completely understand what you are saying. However, that was an assumption on your part as I know for a fact that I was just referring to the generally known fact that Basic Security just messages you with error, whereas Full Security will actually stop the game. A great example of the fact that language will often be the greatest barrier to communication. Sad but true.

So...instead of trying to absolve yourselves from all blame as to who has wasted who's time (which this thread seems to have become now), how about looking from a fresh angle?

A community of experienced SP PBEM players who do not normally visit the Shrapnel site experienced a sudden issue with their games after patching up. The problems occurred slowly (over days) and sporadically (thus the confusion as to the exact nature of the problem) as everyone was playing PBEM games, rather than against the AI.

After failing to get a resolution in the Blitz community, we came to you.
Looking in the forums did not give any answers (I never found the thread you have previously mentioned) and there were no stickies mention the issue.

So...we / I did the obvious thing and made a new post asking 'anyone' if they had seen a similar issue.
What else were we supposed to do?

If you, as Fred suggested, had a Sticky called "Known Issues with latest patches", that would have been the first place I would have looked.

For PBEM players (the entire Blitz Steel panthers community) a security error is a big deal. Thus our attempts to resolve it.

I am happy to hear it is sorted (as i said earlier) and I appreciate your excellent work over a long time with this, my favorite game...as I have often said before.
I never came here to harass, or waste time or be a pain...even though Don might think that...I came here to help my friends at the Blitz, that's all. I certainly didn't come here to be treated like a dunce.

Anyway. The correct information has come to light. That make me happy.
Thank you for your help with everything

Jason

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

No problem - we got there in the end - after talking at cross purposes :)!

A "current known issues" sticky thread may well be a good idea. (Locked so nobody adds confusing random posts to it, and deleted when it is out of date).

Andy

Re: winSPWW2 v4.0 -- 3 CORRECTED OOBs
 

Hi Andy

I have posted a link to, and the text of, the new Known Issues thread on the board at The Blitz.

Thanks for doing that...bloody good idea and very helpful.
Most appreciated.

Regards
Jason