Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Last night, I fell in love with the Proportions Mod which I found on the Gold CD. Incredible stuff, it's what I've been searching for.

I would like to either participate in a multiplayer game using this mod or host a game myself, on PBW or simply doing PBEM.

If there's people interested in a multiplayer game, it would be nice to hear from you.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Gorgo

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

I am very interested in this mod.

But as you already know, I am quite new and my participation in 'Gorgo's Fourth' (Anunikoba) will be all I can muster at the immediate moment.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

I haven't played the mod, or multiplayer... But i've been meaning to give them both a try. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

I'd like to do a multi-player Proportions game. It should be best in multi-player, although I have tweaked the AI a bit for the next patch. I'll try to finalize Version 1.4 and upload it to PBW this weekend.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

I made a quick fix Version 1.4 of Proportions, which can be used to upgrade existing games.

There is a problem with Proportions 1.3 running on SE IV Gold 1.6, in that the infantry defense modifiers can cause unintended stalemates in ground combat. These modifiers have been removed in Proportions 1.4, and are the only change, so existing games running 1.3 should be able to switch to 1.4 without causing any problems or balance issues.

I mean to release a Proportions 1.5 soon (this weekend, I hope), which will also change a number of other things, which are really changes to the balance and other aspects of the mod, rather than fixes. It may be possible to upgrade existing games from earlier Versions to 1.5, but it will change some abilities. Hence 1.4, to fix the problem without changing the game balance and abilities of some things.

Proportions 1.4 is available at PBW HERE.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Count me in. I've been playing around with proportions the Last few days and it's great! As well as the obvious economic changes, I was impressed by the "open" galaxy layout and the new tech tree.

PBEM would suit me best but I'm sure I can be flexible. I guess we'd want to do a quick blitz on TCP to run through the early, short turns.

>400 years to build a cultural centre! Better start building some more starliners...

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Dogscoff,
was just laughing my *** off when I read about your interests. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Why would you prefer PBEM over PBW? I'd rather use PBW, but I'm open to other solutions.

PvK, being the creator of this crazy mod, would you like to host the game as soon as we have enough players? I'm already hosting three games, but if noone else wants, I'd do it.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

I can be the host/game master, if we don't mind not using TCP/IP to start. All of my computers are behind hardware NAT firewalls, preventing TCP/IP SE4 connections.

If we want to get started quickly, though, we could all try to find a time when we can all play at the same time via PBW. In such cases, PBW is nearly as fast as TCP/IP, anyway.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

I'm on holiday from March 21st to 30th, but if we can start before that, it's cool with me. We might live in very different parts of the world, so it could get hard to find a date to quickstart. Personally, I'm from Germany, so that makes about 6 to 8 hours difference to the US I think.
Geoschmo has written that it'll take a few weeks to implement the mods on PBW, but we could start with PBEM and switch later.

Gorgo

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

I only suggested PBEM because I intend to take my turns offline (on my laptop while I commute) - or doesn't that matter on PBW? I don't know. Maybe I should just go and buy that IR mobile phone I can't afford=-)

I'm not too bothered about the TCP/IP either if timezones or firewalls make it impossible. I'm a patient person and don't mind at all if it takes a few weeks for the game to warm up.

To be honest I don't really care what method / combination of methods we use, I can be flexible. A slow pace suits me better because I don't have that much free time, but I should be able to make time for occasional "blitzing" if necessary.

BTW Gorgo - the really funny (sad?) thing is, it's all true.

What exactly is involved in hosting a PBEM? Just collecting the files, turn processing and then distributing them again? I could probably do it.

So... how many players do we want? How many have we already got? Any AIs or neutrals? Do we start ASAP or wait for proportions 1.5?

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Hmm, I guess we've already got 4 people to play, that is PvK, Dogscoff, Osweld and myself. If 4 is enough for all of you, let's talk about settings:

I think PvK should know best which settings would be appropriate for his mod and should make some suggestions here. In order to make our .emp files, is 3.000 racial points okay?

(sorry my previous remark, Dogscoff, it was careless)

Gorgo

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

4 is enough for me, but the more the merrier. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The only real prefence I have is that it's not 5000 racial points (3000 is OK), and a quadrant which isn't just a web of warp points. (I just checked out the mod, and the ancient bi-polar or sparse edge quandrant types would be nice.) But I guess I can live with any quadrant type, really.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Yeah, I like the new quadrant types, they're looking awesome.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

If this game is going to start Sunday or later, I could play too. Seems my schedule won't be as constraining as I first thought.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

This is cool, so we're already five people.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

I'll try to get the proportions mod setup on PBW over the weekend. I'll post something here when I get it done.

Geoschmo

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Yes, let's take as many players as want to join, though our current five is fine, so we can start as soon as we're all set up. I would suggest we not include any AI empires, because it would create a huge opportunity to try to capture their homeworld. Unless we want a "King of the Hill" type scenario. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I would like to try to use the 1.5 Version, which I'll try to have ready and send to geoschmo (and post here) by Friday night or Saturday day. I want to take another look at the racial attribute point costs, to double-check the balance, so hold off on tweaking your planned empire abilities.

Dogscoff, PBW is mainly an automated PBEM host - it just makes PBEM faster and easier. PBW will email you the turn files (and offer them on the web) automatically as soon as everyone has submitted their turns. You don't need to be continuously connected, but if every player happens to be playing at the same time, it can go about as quickly as TCP/IP or hotseat can. Hosting is just a matter of setting up the game and filling in web forms on PBW, but I'll be happy to do it.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Suggestions for settings?

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

So far I'm thinking the settings will be as follows. I'm happy to change things to suit players' tastes, so let me know. I've included the requests so far.

Hosted on PBW.
Turn duration: 48 hours or as soon as everyone has their turn in.
Proportions mod Version 1.5.

Quadrant:
Large Ancient Bi-Polar with all warp points connected, all player planets the same size.

Event frequency: medium
Max event severity: high

Tech cost: medium
All tech areas allowed.

Starting resources: Medium
Home Planet Value: Average
Number of homeworlds: 1

"Evenly" distributed

Player can only view own score

New player tech level: low

Racial points: 3000

No AI empires or neutrals

AI Difficulty high and computer bonus high, in case a rebel faction appears.

No set victory conditions

Max ships and units in space: 5000 each (pity we don't all have Gold 1.64 yet... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

No cheat codes.

Gifts and tributes ok.

No technology gifts (send a gift ship if you need to).

Surrender not allowed (subjugation ok).

Intel projects ok.

Ruins will exist. Note that most of them will be red herrings.

No strict limits on colonization.

No saving map during game.

Simultaneous movement.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

That's fine with me.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

What happens in Gold 1.64? Larger numbers of ships and units allowed?

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Ya, the limits on both can be turned up to 20,000. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Oh BTW, if you do set up a game using the Proportions warp-point-rich system types, I recommend trying turning off the "all systems connected" setting, because you still get all systems connected, but some interesting configurations.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Sounds good to me, but we might want to play in a smaller quandrant unless we get some more people. Large might be a bit big for only 5 people.


Oh, and I assume it's infinite resources? (although finite is ok with me, too)

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Evil PvK,
you doubled the gravitational force of black holes!

You are mean.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Now I realize why 5.000 units is not much for this mod. A few turns building soldiers (my homeworld can build 237 per turn, and I'm already getting close to 1.000 units.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

That's only for units in SPACE, IIRC is doesn't apply to units in cargo- weapons platforms, troops, stored sats/drones/fighters.

Phoenix-D

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Thanks, I forgot about that.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Count me in, if you want. I have not tried proportions mod so far, sorry PvK , so many great things on the CD, so much to do, but I will take a look into it before you start the game. From what I have read so far, I guess this will become a cool challenge.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Welcome in the game! Now we're six.
Looks like you're from Germany too...

Gorgo

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Yes, limit is on number of units in space. Troops are unlimited, even on transports. Massive numbers of ships or units in space aren't necessarily a particular feature of Proportions, as far as I know. I just think the higher the theoretical limit, the better. I know it's pretty easy to hit 1,000 units in space even in a small normal game.

There are two kinds of black holes in Proportions - one is stronger than the other. The other one is like before. But ya, I try to introduce some evil from time to time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Infinite resources, yes.

We can do a smaller quadrant - that's probably a good idea for increased interaction. Maybe Small, or Medium if we get 8 players.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gorgo:

Looks like you're from Germany too...

Gorgo<hr></blockquote>

Yep, [Space Vikings:] "Beerplanets are the best !"

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Settings look good to me.

Gorgo - I'm not even sure what you're apologising for, so don't worry about offending me. Even if you did say something offensive, I'm pretty hard to upset.

So we've got:

Arak Koba (Sol III - (Can you be more specific?))
Dogscoff (UK)
Gorgo (Germany)
Osweld (?)
PsychoTechFreak (Germany)
PVK (?)

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

So if Geoschmo is able to install the mod on PBW this weekend, we could be starting in the next days.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Woohoo! My first multiplayer since July and my first ever PBW... actually I'd better regster for PBW hadn't I?

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by dogscoff:
Woohoo! My first multiplayer since July and my first ever PBW... actually I'd better regster for PBW hadn't I?<hr></blockquote>

Yes indeed, Chief Dogscoffson, but it is just a matter of seconds. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

For me it is a "first time" also ...

[ 15 March 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]</p>

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

PvK, check PM, pleeeaaasee.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Got it, thanks very much. PTF caught a bug with electronic warfare - I had put the efficiency variants in different families so "show latest" would offer the best of different trade-offs, but this allowed human players to cheat by stacking different varieties. I fixed it for the upcoming release, but now players will have to wade through lots of choices to see all the variants at high tech levels. Whether to-hit mods stack seems to be determined by component family number, which is also what determines which components get filtered by "Show latest only".

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

If there's still room, I'd be glad to join in. This would be my first game against non-AI, and I'd enjoy competing against some sentient beings.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Welcome, Krsqk!

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

I'd like to play.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Wow, the gameplay is... different, interesting, I really begin to like the idea. It takes quite a few years to spread your empire. How many (real) years do we want to play ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PvK, if you talk about Large Quadrant, what will be our settings for max. number of systems ? 255 ?

If a home system is affected by a random event (medium-high, really?) the resulting trouble could be a quick end for this race, or what do you think ?

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

We were saying we'd do a small quadrant, or medium if we get to eight players ( I think we have seven now ). In Proportions, size has far less effect on the amount of resources and research available, but you have enough to start building and maintaining a fleet from the beginning, just from a homeworld. However, in the interest of getting players interacting sooner, a small or medium quadrant probably makes sense.

The rate of expansion and development, and the number of production decisions per turn, is much much lower in Proportions, because you can hardly ever build an entire facility in one turn. However you can build small ships and fly them around. :-) Although, in 1.5 there are even more marked differences involving trade-offs of ship size and engine efficiency. And, with the work I'm finishing up now, troops may become actually important and useful.

As for events, that's why I suggested we didn't do catastrophic, because they really can be catastrophic.

High still includes rebellions, terrible plagues, and warp point closure, but I think the only total wipe-out one would be rebellion on a homeworld &lt;g&gt;. Although, even that, the player might be able to recover from via re-capture - it'd be interesting to see.

I actually really like how major events can cause the need for major reaction in Proportions (exodus via a swarm of starliners, for instance), although some of the catastrophic ones could really plough someone's game, so that's why I suggested High.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PvK:
We were saying we'd do a small quadrant, or medium if we get to eight players ( I think we have seven now ).

<hr></blockquote>

Based on 100 max. or 255 ?

And, as for the major-looking changes in ver 1.5, could we get two or three days to become familiar with it before we start ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

I agree with the events setup, but it could be that if someone with a real bad luck, -666 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif , looses his homeworld due to a rebellion, maybe even cannot afford a fleet to re-capture it any more.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Now we're eight players:

Arak Koba
Dogscoff
Gorgo
Osweld
PsychoTechFreak
PVK
Krsq
Imperator Fryon,

so we could use a medium qudrant.

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Based on 100 max. or 255 ?

And, as for the major-looking changes in ver 1.5, could we get two or three days to become familiar with it before we start ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

I agree with the events setup, but it could be that if someone with a real bad luck, -666 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif , looses his homeworld due to a rebellion, maybe even cannot afford a fleet to re-capture it any more.<hr></blockquote>

Based on 100 max systems.

Yes, I will be posting 1.5 today, it'll may SJ a day or so to get it on PBW, one of our players needed to wait till after Sunday, we need to choose shipsets without conflicts, etc., so you should get a few days to pre-learn, if you want to.

I guess I'm evil, but I'll be amused if someone's homeworld rebels. If they took Cursed for -666, maybe they'll learn some respect for omens.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Or, as gamemaster, I could let them take over the rebelled homeworld, and maybe assign a new player to their original empire &lt;g&gt;. Sounds kinda fun, actually.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Can't wait. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif


Might aswell get the shipsets and stuff out of the way now. I plan on using the "seorfleet" shipset.

By the way, will altering the "default" files (strategies, formations, empire titles, ect...) cause any problems in multiplayer?

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Osweld:
By the way, will altering the "default" files (strategies, formations, empire titles, ect...) cause any problems in multiplayer?<hr></blockquote>

Have to answer on a case-by-case basis:

1. Strategies. I don't know for sure - I think it might confuse the game if a player has altered their strategy files and expects them to work as they are defined on his computer. The worst this would do, though, is have it so your ships won't really follow the orders you think you are giving them. So, unless someone knows this causes no problems, I would say you should start with the default strategies, and then alter them during play.
OTOH, if you gave the server the same AI strategy file as you are playing with, it should work, but the server will be on PBW, so probably not.

2. Formations. These are per game, so you should have the same ones the game is using, or you will be giving orders that may get mixed up by the host.

3. Empire titles and ship names files. These you can mess with as much as you like on the player side, and the host computer won't care, since it deals in actual names, and those files are just pick lists for players. Only exception is if you use your design minister - it will use the names file on the host computer.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Ok, I think 1.5 is ready, and I'm about to post the readme it on a new thread, and the file on PBW.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

Altering formations.txt will definitely cause problems. Altering strategies.txt shouldn't cause too much of a problem, because you can alter your empire's strategies within the game. Emporertitle.txt, empirenames.txt, and those like them are only accessed when games are created, so having modified ones on your computer will not cause a problem.

I plan on using the Vorlon Empire ship set.

Edit:
Hmm... seems as if PvK responded at the same time I did. Oh well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ 17 March 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

I have already read the FAQ section of PBW, but I still have two semi-newbie questions about shipset and AI.

1. PvK, in your mod there are some altered ship classes, isn't there any need to upload some special shipsets for this Mod ?

2. In the rare case, I would miss a turn, the AI takes over my action. I guess it takes the strategies out of the downloaded shipset, right ? Do you recommend to take one of the AI files out of the Proportions Mod ?

Re: Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?
 

You can make the AI not do anything if you miss a turn. Inside SEIV, go into the empire options window and select Ministers. Scroll all the way to the bottom and select the option about the AI not making any changes in a simultaneous move game.