Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

Hi,
there is a new Version of the Devnull Mod. Now featuring Space Monsters! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

short summary:
* added Space Monsters
* two more races updated (UkraTal and XiChung)
* reduced costs of drone engines

DevnullModGold_v1.60

Happy gaming http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ,
Rollo

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

What I don't like:

- Lack of Description
- Not much *scary* stuff for monsters.

What I do like:

- Frigging big Space Monster http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TerranC:
What I don't like:

- Lack of Description
- Not much *scary* stuff for monsters.

What I do like:

- Frigging big Space Monster http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <hr></blockquote>

You mean lack of description of the Mod itself or the missing race descriptions of the Monsters? Gosh, I hope it is the latter, because most of the time today I was writing readme files (booooring).

Also what do you mean with *scary* stuff? Something like blood dripping from the monitor and barely clothed college girls running around screaming? Sorry, can't do that (requires hard code changes) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

Rollo

edit: typos
edit: more typos, sigh
edit: even more typos, I give up

[ 28 April 2002: Message edited by: Rollo ]

[ 28 April 2002: Message edited by: Rollo ]

[ 28 April 2002: Message edited by: Rollo ]</p>

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

I'd say that a little from columm a, a little from columm b.

I don't mind the race descriptions, as they do little good, but on the Monster Habitats and the Monster components don't say anything at all or this:

Monster Claw: Claws for Monsters.

And also some of the abilities on the ships I don't understand.

And what I meant for Scary stuff is... more like unexpected, weird stuff, rather than Godzilla clip-ons. No offense.

But people who worked on this did heck of a good job. It's really fun making a Frigging Huge Monster and using them on neutrals.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

I think the Habitat problem is because monsters are supposed to be AI players, human players aren't supposed to ever see those facilities

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

Will this change any games running the mod now or can I over write them????

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

TerranC - Hehe, I think now I understand. You are playing as monster, right? It is not supposed to work that way. The monsters were designed to be an AI and make things a little more interesting. Try adding the monsters as a computer player. The monsters will use designs otherwise impossible for an AI (like using 3 or more weapons, special components and so on). I am fairly certain you'll find a few surprises then.

Andres - Yes, you are completely right. Humans would never see a habitat facility, so I didn't bother with descriptions.

mottlee - Hmm, good question. Gee, I am not sure. Let's see what I did:
* added a new racial trait (that will make old .emps obsolete)
* changed requirements for some intel ops and added new tech area (basic intel)
* changed a few components and added a lot new ones to the end of the file
* changed most races AI files in respect to resource production
* maybe some other stuff I can't recall from the top of my head

I would suggest that you rename your old DevnullMod folder and then install the new Version. Try loading the old savegames with the new Version and see what happens. Sorry, I can't be of more help here.

to all - looks like I screwed up a little with my calculations and made monster tech way too cheap http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif . I did most tests with only one planet, 2000 points and under minister control (which means no bonus).
Anyway, in my current actual game I used 3 planets, 3000 points and low AI bonus and the monsters had maxed out their tech by turn 20 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif OOPS.

I suggest raising the cost of monster tech to a large amount, say 150000.

You can do this yourselves.
1. Find the techarea.txt file in .../DevnullModGold/Data.

2. Change the Last entry to:

Name := Monster Tech
Group := Applied Science
Description := Only for the bad and ugly guys.
Maximum Level := 12
Level Cost := 150000
Start Level := 1
Raise Level := 2
Racial Area := 6
Unique Area := 0
Can Be Removed := False
Number of Tech Req := 0


I will test this tonight and make it part of a patch, if more bugs / suggestions come in.

Rollo

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

LOL It IS MONDAY!!!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

Seems I can't load v1.51 savegames into v1.60. Is there a fix?

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by afried:
Seems I can't load v1.51 savegames into v1.60. Is there a fix?<hr></blockquote>

Is this a simultaneous or turn based game? SE4 will not load any simultaneous games after a change of the data files.

Rollo

edited post after second thought

[ 30 April 2002: Message edited by: Rollo ]</p>

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

Rollo: it will, BUT you have to log on as the host first and press end turn (IIRC) that 'resets' the data files.

Phoenix-D

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Rollo: it will, BUT you have to log on as the host first and press end turn (IIRC) that 'resets' the data files.

Phoenix-D<hr></blockquote>

Ah, good to know. That's news to me (obviously http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif ). So, afried, does Phoenix's hint solve your problem?

Rollo

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

There are some data file changes that will prevent any processing of the truns, even by the host. Adding entries to the racial traits file for example.

Geoschmo

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

True. I forgot about that problem.

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

Sorry. I'm just playing single player and it won't let me even load a 1.51 save game (says it is unable to). I re-install 1.51 and I'm good to go.

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

I started a new game as soon as DvNM 1.6 came out, and now (about 10 years in) it's shaping up to be a real classic.

I picked a large spiral arm quadrant, hich creates a ring of systems around the edge of the map and a few "branches" leading into the central cluster. I started in a corner with very few colonisable planets (mainly moons) and so I have been making friends with the Phong and developping infrastructure.

Anyway, the Phong just signed a new partnership with a race I haven't met yet and a whole load of star charts became available to me, and it turns out the central systems of the map are infested with giant planet-eating space worms=-)

Thanks for this mod, guys, I'm really going to enjoy it.

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

Hi, I wanted to report a problem that I saw with the new Monsters race in DevNullGold160. It seems to be missing some of the graphics files for the raceset. This causes some problems with some of the race viewer utilties out there (like mine). It works but leaves an real ugly hole in the HTML. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

I understand this is probably still a work in progress. One suggestion to prevent problems would be just to use placeholder graphics and then as you get the missing ones completed you can add them in 1 by 1.

Thanks,
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
-CS

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

Now that you have monsters, (a really awesome thing by the way) how about adding a "monster hunters" race that behave in the same way as the monsters (don't colonize), but are specifically designed to take out space monsters.

That could lead to some interesting battles where your race is caught in the middle of a huge war between monsters and hunters.

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

Dogscoff - Uh oh, space worms... Did you manage to kill one, yet?
In my current game I had the greatest difficulties with the monsters. They started rather close to me, opened warp points everywhere, glassed many colonies and "ate" one homeworld. I was so busy with defending that I totally missed that the other AIs were building huge empires. I had good relations with all of them and the trade kept me alive pretty well. By turn 190 the Vikings had a score of 3.5M and declared war on me. The worst part was the loss of trade and the Vikings were hitting me heavily with intel. Shortly after that I lost all other trade, because of communication mimics and was at war with everybody. Also I lost another homeworld due to PPP. I glassed all nearby Viking colonies and the resulting riots took a heavy toll on their score (down to 1.7M). They lost most of their intel points and now I can defend against them. Still the monsters are very dangerous. Lost a fleet some turns ago that was hit by 96 drones http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif .
Glad that you like the mod so far, let me know how you do in your game. Do you find the monsters too tough / too easy to beat? I guess it depends largely on how close you start to them, but I am considering toning them down a bit (apart from fleshing them out, of course). Is that appropriate or am I just a whimp? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Cold Steel - Actually none of the graphics for the monsters are missing, everything needed for them is there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif . But I know what you mean and you are right this is a work still in progress. I should point out that the monsters are not supposed to be a regular shipset and I just included the gfx that they actually use in order to keep the mod as small as possible. I am somewhat reluctant to add useless pics and thus increase the size of the mod. How about if I add really small 1 pixel b/w bitmaps to the mod as placeholders?. Would that work with your programm ? Maybe the gaps would be less ugly then.

Urendi Maleldil - Yeah, monster hunters would be cool. I still have a lot to do with the monsters themselves, though. Step 2 of the monster project is already in the planning and there are some fixes that need to be done before that as well. One problem that I am seeing, though, is the politics for the monster hunters. Unless MM adds feuds to the politics (that has been requested by some people and would make a lot of sense for races like Eee vs. Drushocka or Rage vs. Vaxin), I currently do not see a way to do the hunters correctly. For now, I guess, human players have to take up the role as monster hunters http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Well, it is way past my bedtime...

Rollo

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

Still playing, it is turning into one hell of a game.

The monsters dominate the game entirely, they have massive fleets of huge monsters cruising around demolishing anything in their path.

There are about 12 surviving ais and myself, and with one exception we are all on peaceful terms with one-another (even the xenophobes) and have been all game. I think the monsters have triggered MEE.

I'm in second place, with inferior weapons tech but advanced stellar manip. I'm probably about 20 turns away from building a star-destroyer and removing the monsters' home systems from the map=-)

I'm really interested to see what happens to interstellar politics once the monsters are taken out of the game.

One small comment about the monsters: They use all offensive intel. I understand that they need to have intel production to defend from crew insurrection etc, but it isn't very realistic to have them stealing my ships and empire data. Could I sugest giving them their own intel tech, with counter intel and maybe a few "special" intel projects: for example, rename the ship bomb so that it says "tiny space monsters have caused damage to your ship" or something.

Make these atatcks very rare though -The only way I can think of doing this is to perhaps replicate the "harmless" projects (ie census thefts) lots of times, and take out all descriptions and warnings from them, so that the target empire isn't aware of them happening. If these "blank" projects outnumbered the destructive projects by 10 or 20 to one, and the AI was selecting from them randomly, they should only carry out an offensive intel project very rarely.

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm, that's bad. The Monsters are not supposed to use offensive intel. I assume they have gotten "Basic Intel" from somewhere. (FYI, I have added basic intel to the Mod to prevent Monsters using any intel except defense).

That is one of the things that I hope to have fixed in the next (unreleased) Version. I increased the number of monster tech levels, so they will research only that to infinity (well, not really, but in game terms). Also I have set "will demand surrender" to False in the politics, so they shouldn't get tech from surrenders.

Not sure that I like the suggestion of special offensive intel projects. I would rather have them use intel for defense only.

Thanks for the feedback, Dogscoff. Your observation about all the races being on peaceful terms, because of the MEE monsters is consistant with mine. I'll change the MEE settings to a larger value for AI, because I don't think that this effect is desirable.

Rollo

edit:typos

[ May 17, 2002, 18:37: Message edited by: Rollo ]

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I dunno... I'm now in the position where a dozen or so well-established empires are bordering one another in relative peace (a few fights have broken out) and the monsters are about to be eliminated. I can't wait, I reckon all hell will break loose as the AIs turn on one another (and me) at the same time. My Ringworld should be ready by then. I'm gonna wipe the floor with them.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I guess they'd be like the random events. Could be fun: "Giant space lobsters have eaten 20000 Organics from your storage facilities." heheheh.

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

Rollo:

In my Derek's Mod Gold, which, as you know, includes your monsters, I've also seen the monsters use some offensive intel. I have also seen games where no-one uses any offensive intel at all. Rather strange.

Let me know what fixes you make, so I can include them in Derek's Mod Gold; that is, if you don't mind http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thanks
Derek

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

Version 1.61 is currently uploading...

Dogscoff - I have changed the MEE settings to see how it goes. Good thing about SE4, of course, is that you can alter the settings to whatever you prefer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Derek - Hopefully V1.61 will have fixed the offensive intel for monsters. If it is still there, I might have to add a new racial trait "not a monster" (wouldn't really like this, though).
Not sure why some AIs don't use offensive intel in your Mod. Did you add "basic intel" to research and tech areas? That is needed to make normal (non-monster) intel possible.
The changes are all in the readme. If you have any problems or need more detail, let me know. Of course I don't mind that you use the monsters http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . Unfortunately I didn't have the time yet to check your mod out, but I will in the future.

Rollo

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

"If it is still there, I might have to add a new racial trait "not a monster" (wouldn't really like this, though)."

What are you doing to prevent them from using offensive intel?

Phoenix-D

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have added a new tech area (basic intel) that is a requirement for the offensive intel projects.

Rollo

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

And then you have the monsters research Applied Intelligence?

What you could do, if that doesn't work, it make the monsters their own counter intel project, and give it the prereq that's the same as the monster ships. That way, they don't even have to research applied intel, so they won't have any of the other projects at all.

Phoenix-D

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes that was exactly what I did: Give the monsters their own counter intel.

The situation is a bit different in Devnull Mod though. Applied Intelligence is available from low tech level start. So I had to disable the projects that come from that.

There are now three Groups of intel projects in Devnull Mod:

1) requires Appl. Int. + basic Intel: projects that make sense for the AI to use (ship bomb, crew insurrection, etc.). The AI researches that as the first thing (cost is only 1)

2) requires Appl. Int. + human Intel: Projects that don't make sense for the AI (force concentration, etc). The AI does not have human intel in the research, so it doesn't waste points on those projects.

3) requires Monster tech: that is the Monster counter intel

That system should work unless monsters get a hold of basic intel somehow and of course full tech start.

So how can the monsters get this tech?

* ruins: they don't colonize
* research: monster tech now has 99 levels at base cost 200k. Since the monster research file only contains monster tech, it should take them a while to finish that and start working on projects that are not included in their file (didn't realize the AI would do that until lately)
* surrenders: the monsters do not send "demand surrender anymore"
* gifts/tributes: the monsters don't accept them anymore

Did I miss anything?

Rollo

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

"So how can the monsters get this tech?

* ruins: they don't colonize
* research: monster tech now has 99 levels at base cost 200k. Since the monster research file only contains monster tech, it should take them a while to finish that and start working on projects that are not included in their file (didn't realize the AI would do that until lately)
* surrenders: the monsters do not send "demand surrender anymore"
* gifts/tributes: the monsters don't accept them anymore

Did I miss anything?"

Don't think so. Only one way to find out, AIs being AIs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Re: Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I guess they'd be like the random events. Could be fun: "Giant space lobsters have eaten 20000 Organics from your storage facilities." heheheh.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am still reluctant to add offensive monster Intel, because of the amount of intel points the monster generate. Also I would like to have them totally concentrate on defense.

But it came to me this morning, while still half alseep (Duh, sometimes you just overlook the obvious http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif ): How about if we add "monster intel" as random events? A couple (or a lot?) of monster related events might be fun. It could even include hints/info about the monsters like how to beat them etc. (like scout or scientific reports). Also someone can make some neat pixel graphics (hint, hint http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) to attach them to these events.

Good idea? (y/n)

Rollo

note to myself: first preview, then post

[ May 19, 2002, 12:14: Message edited by: Rollo ]