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AI DEAD MATCH CONTEST!
Here more than once, the people have asked about what is or are the best AI Races.
In my humble opinion, the question can't be answered 100% in an objective way. Mostly, because depending of the game settings and starting position, the luck, and the preferences of the human player, most of the AI races will have different performances. Anyway, all of us agree that all (most?) of the the modded Races, are better than the stock Races... then, think that some degree of comparison can be done. More than one year ago, here was organized an AI tournament, and think that now is time to start a new one! I want to start this contest, with 2 premises: - Exclude in the possible the luck. I know it's impossible...but want to do my best effort! IMHO, most the time the starting position and the map, determine the AI performance in a game. Then, believed that starting with a custom map, that could be fair enough to offer similar opportunities to all the AIs, would be a good idea. I did it and if the map that did, it's fair to all the AIs or not, can be debated... and I would be glad to hear opinions. But at least it's something that I can start to use (hey, if it's too geometric and boring to somebody, please remember that I did the SE3/4 Ladder's Map!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ). - Head to Head games (it mean, 1 AI vs 1 AI). Why? Because are more easy to do (and fast!), because avoid the problem when the AI doesn't know where to send their fleets, and finally because avoid the problem when an AI is struggled between other two. I know, races like the Rage will have an advantage, and will be a drawback for the peaceful ones. But at least in my games, the aggressive AIs usually have more success than the peaceful (maybe excluding the TDM Praetorians). RULES. - Everybody can vote here, for 5 AI scripts to be included into the contest, until the next 11/12 night. - The 16 more voted AI scripts, will take part of the AI DEAD MATCH CONTEST! - If we can't reach this number, I will include the AI's that could consider more competitives, until have 16 AIs. - I will use the more new AI scripts Versions that could find, or if the AI's author want, could send me an updated Version. - If the author of the AI don't want to see their scripts included into this contest, the AI will be replaced for the next AI in the list. - Using a random function (as I said, we can't avoid 100% the luck!), will assign numbers from 1 to 16, to every AI. - I will start matches, between the AI 1 vs AI 2, the AI 3 vs AI 4, etc, etc. - The games will be played using a custom map, TDM data files, 3 Good Starting Planets, no random events, simultaneous movement and the first Player for the "human" player. - The victory can be decided by: a) One AI was able to destroy 100% the other AI. b) The AI with more victory points after 500 turns. - I will post the save game at the end of every game. - Every AI will need to defeat 3 times their opponent, to pass the next round (it mean, at least 3 games between the two AIs!). - If somebody have suggestions or observations, I will be happy to hear it! Please, can somebody vote? |
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Here is the link to the map:
AIContestMAP.zip EDIT: I have changed the map a bit, to balance the Gas Giant races, including some Large planets. [ November 10, 2002, 20:41: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ] |
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I still have the tech files I used for the old AI Challenge. They were used for a playaer controlled observer race since one player race is needed to run a game and a human player with full AI control runs differently than a full AI player.
With your SE4batch program running, 1 on 1 duels should go very quickly. The only problem I see is if two friendly players ally with each other and remain approximately equal in score. Then they will never fight each other (no MEE). Might I offer a suggestion to judge races on style and originality as well as brute combat effectiveness? |
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I can see your point about the human race. But I have decided a different approach: have created a lone system, without warp connections far in the left down corner for the human player. Then, I don't need special tech files: simply the human player will be out of the battle. And if one AI can open a hole to this system (what I doubt), good for them! Quote:
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And my subjective judge believe that the United Flora, should win every style and originality contest hands down! And because I wanted to do the more objective contest possible, have decided to exclude other kinds of prizes. But, if you want to be part, and judge the races considering style and originality, I have not problems! Hey, nobody like to vote for any AI? Please don't let me select the 16 AI races myself! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif |
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Out of my six AI (Jraenar, Klingons, Praetorian, Romulans, Shadows and UkraTal), I'd be interested to see how my Klingons do....
Regards GE PS: I have posted an update that supercedes my mod-pack Version. [ November 10, 2002, 00:04: Message edited by: God Emperor ] |
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I absolutely insist that the United Flora compete. I would also like to see how the Space Vikings fare, and am interested in the Drakol showing.
CombatSquirrel |
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The modified tech files had a component that closed warp points (for sealing off the human's system on a random map), had a master computer, super high movement, quantum reactor, super high cloaking, and all sensors and scanners.
I did it because I wasn't sure if "omnipresent view" affected AI behavior. Also it was kind of cool to play the omnipotent observer. I simply slapped together a few observer escorts for each AI race and parked them over key systems. Then I could see anything they did and note any nifty actions. I also played AI turns outside of the game every hundred turns or so so I could see how they were doing research wise and stuff. P.S. I really want the Orks to take some names. [ November 10, 2002, 05:04: Message edited by: Urendi Maleldil ] |
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I would like to throw in the Earth Alliance and the Narn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
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First, thanks to everybody for the votes!!!
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Being one who never underestimates the power of the Dark Side I'd like to see how the Empire does (Star Wars Empire 1) or even my poor misunderstood EEEvil Empire. As for other peoples AI's I've always had a great respect for the Angelican Regency. That and the Xi'Chung have always kicked butt (mine at least!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )
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This sounds cool! I'd like to see my Namovans and Azorani in it, if there is still room. I'm also about to release a new Version of the Rage with improvements based upon my observations from Turn Blitz 1. I would like to see how the new Version performs in your test, again, if there is room.
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I've never had my AI survive long enough to sugest using them, but I'd vote for the :-
Orcs, Pyrochette, Drakol, Earth Alliance, Xi'Chung, EEEvil Empire, & Eee They always seem to be in the Top 10 in any of my Solo games. |
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Rage or Vikings vs Orks
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Cool idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .
Only problem I see might be the "quad damage" bug or are you running that on the beta? Only 5 AI choices, that is hard. My votes go to: Azorani, Eee (new Version), Namovan, Orks, Toron I would also include the Aquilaeian, but I have only 5 votes and I reckon they will get enough votes anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . Rollo |
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Believe it or not, my #1 vote for most challenging AI goes to...
the Romulans!! Superb job beefing them up, God Emperor. They always ravage the other AIs in my games, and give us humans something to think about. My money is certainly on the Romulans... so... speaking of wagers... when the final list is decided, please post odds so we can do some virtual wagering! This could be fun, eh? |
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I asked to Aaron, and he told me that only needed to install the game from the CD, and then, apply the Last patch... but never worked. |
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Torons, and GE's new races.
But torons moreover. They expand fast, they research fast, they build fast, and they have drones with alligience subverters http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif |
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They use subverter drones!? I've used that strategy. It's really effective. I must be playing the old Torons.
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My votes are:
the United Flora, the Rage (if possible the new Version AK mentioned), the Klingons, the Narn and the new Version of the Eee (sorry, couldn't resist). Thanks MB for your great idea and listening to the wishes of the gas giant races. R. |
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My five votes:
Orks Vikings Rage EEEvil United Flora [ November 11, 2002, 19:08: Message edited by: Urendi Maleldil ] |
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What about all the TDM races? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Thanks guys, you did a wonderful work modding these races! Seriously, my votes are: 1) Narn 2) EA 3) Pyrochette 4) Vikings 5) Aquilaeian Could also include, a vote for the XiChung? |
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My think my votes would be for the Aquillians, Earth Alliance, Toron, and United Floral - they seem to be in the top 10 for me the most consistantly, with the the fifth being a toss-up between the Orks, Rage, Vaxin, or Pyrochette.
M.B. wasn't there one of the Beta testers who had problems after a bad computer crash, ending up with thier machine ID code changing. [ November 11, 2002, 12:53: Message edited by: Atraikius ] |
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If doesn't exist objections, I'm going to change something the original format of the Contest.
First, would like to include max of possible AI without became crazy running the games! Then, will be happy to extend the 16 AIs limit to 24. Second, was thinking that with the originally proposed fixture, maybe the best 2 AIs could have the bad luck to have a meet in the first round, and then, we will lose one of them so early... then, was thinking to use a more fair but long system to run the contest. - 6 Groups with 4 races. - All the races of ech group will play between them, in the 1 vs 1 basis. It mean, 6 games per Group. - The 2 first races of each group, will go to the next round. - If does exist a draw for the 1st or second place, I'll run extra games. - The second round will be done with 3 Groups of 4 AIs. The 2 first of each group will go to the third round. - The Third Round will be done with 2 Groups of 3 AIs each one. The 2 first of each group, will go the the fourth round. - The Fourth round will be done with 2 Groups of 2 AIs each one. The winner of each group, will fight the final. Here is a link with the projected fixture. Fixture.zip With this format, the tournament will take more time to run, but think we will get more accurated results. Objections????????? Hey, does exist a voluntary that would like to run a website for the Tournament? Would be cool, because we could post there all the AI files used, the Map, zip files with the savegames, the results, etc, etc |
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CombatSquirrel |
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MB, could you post save game files every so often for each of the games so we the "spectators" can see what the AIs are doing to each other?
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The only problem is the size. I'll keep savegames every 10 turns, but considering that will be lots of games, Shrapnel will kill me! Well. The list was closed and after compile all the named races... the number was exactly 24! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Here are all the voted AIs: Jraenar Klingons Praetorian Romulans Shadows UkraTal United Flora Space Vikings Drakol Earth Alliance Narn Star Wars Empire EEEvil Empire Angelican Regency Xi'Chung Namovans Azorani Rage Orks Pyrochette Eee Toron Aquilaeian Vaxin Well, after it, have started to generate random numbers with my calc for every race. Then, after order the racers for the generated number, the Groups are: GROUP A United Flora 0,035 Eee 0,101 Drakol 0,134 Azorani 0,229 GROUP B Aquilaeian 0,244 Orks 0,261 Space Vikings 0,331 UkraTal 0,364 GROUP C Namovans 0,392 Pyrochette 0,452 Praetorian 0,5 Vaxin 0,603 GROUP D Toron 0,606 Xi'Chung 0,609 Rage 0,609 Earth Alliance 0,688 GROUP E EEEvil Empire 0,709 Klingons 0,722 Angelican Regency 0,831 Jraenar 0,838 GROUP F Star Wars Empire 0,844 Shadows 0,85 Narn 0,979 Romulans 9,62 Then, I'm starting the first match between United Flora and the EEE new Version. LETS GO!!! |
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I have just posted Version 3.0 of the Rage. If it is not too late, I would like them to be the Version in the contest.
For the sake of redundency, here is the link: 1037251673.zip Edit for corrected link. Somehow I previously uploaded the wrong Zip file. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif [ November 14, 2002, 05:32: Message edited by: Alpha Kodiak ] |
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Well, we have our first winner! Yep, the United Flora have defeated the EEE. Was something easy for them, I think. Believe that the main problem with the EEE was their expansion. Here is the link: UFlora_vs_EEE_G1.zip Now are fighting the Drakol vs Azorani. The Azorani go first (turn 85), but looks a balanced game. EDIT: Turn 273 and the game seems decided for the Azorani. The Drakol where out of minerals during a long time. Edit2: The game has been finished and the Azorani are the winners. Drakol_vs_Azorani_G1.zip Now are fighting the Aquilaeian Vs Orks. I'll going to sleep and tomorrow will see the result... EDIT 3: I'm still here! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ! Turn 178 and the Aquilaeian have the advantage and think will win the match. Now, really I'm going to sleep!!! ---------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hey DeathStalker, could you send me the files for: Star Wars Empire 1. EEEvil Empire Angelican Regency Please remember that should be compatible with 1.78. [ November 13, 2002, 03:16: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ] |
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Quote"IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey DeathStalker, could you send me the files for: Star Wars Empire 1. EEEvil Empire Angelican Regency Please remember that should be compatible with 1.78." The latest Versions of the shipsets (EEEvil and StarWars Emp1) are at Kuat Drive Yards. The Regency is one of John Beeches and is at Universal Ship Yards. (dont' actually know who did the AI for it). As for compatibility the ones I have work fine with the latest se4 Version. If you can't get to them though I could post them here. (edit) [ November 13, 2002, 04:28: Message edited by: Deathstalker ] |
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Something odd happened in the Drokol vs. Azorani match. I checked the Azorani designs at turn 100 and none of the designs were correct for Azorani. There was an armed colonizer cruiser that does not exist for the Azorani, and weapons for attack ships were a mix of missiles and PPB. Then I checked at the end of the game and the designs were a mix of the above designs and standard Azorani designs. I noticed that many of the designs were named Design nnn, so I wonder if there was a cross-up of some sort with the Drakol on design names.
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EDIT: About my idea below, i'll do something on the EEE, 1st game in the next couple days and post it.
EDIT: I only read pages 2 and 3 before posting hence most of this is irrelevant. However... each game or series could be distributed for analysis and a whole analysis package could be drawn up with a winner written up. Also big points for any race that can beat the allegiance subverter w/o a mod. ...maybe? [ November 13, 2002, 05:01: Message edited by: Skulky ] |
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I just checked the saves (turn 100 and later) of the EEE-UF match. There are lots of oddities (on the Eee side) similar to those AK mentioned in his Last post.
The ship designs are completely new: The Eee never designed cargo or troop transports. I didn't find the missile and PPB attack ships, there are lots of APB and DUC ships which the Eee never designed (APBs are not even researched). There are weapon platforms the Eee never designed, researched or built but a lot of "wrong" fighters. The research tree is also very strange and not the "original" one, the facility construction is lousy. To shorten it up, I found the Emperor's name but the wrong Empire. After seeing this chaos I stopped wondering why the UF defeated the Eee so easily. Using this stuff the Eee are not even a match for a stock race. An official protest by General Secretary Lihun is in order. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif |
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When I have started the tournament, I have created a new folder named "Tournament", and was doing a copy there all the AI files. The problem was, that when I have started this game, forget to change the setting into the program "SE4Batch", to change the MOD folder... then, think that the EEE used most the time, the TDM files! I never played the EEE TDM, then, when I realized the mistake, checked the EEE and believed that was not the stock EEE, then, believed that everything was ok (because I don't remembered that the EEE was included into the TDM). When the United Flora, doesn't existed problems (THINK!), because I had a copy of the 2.0 Version inside my TDM folder. Conclusion: I'll play the game again... SORRY! About the Drakol_vs_Azorani, well, I think that have changed the setting before this game. But I have got some game errors, and then, did a reboot and everything was ok. I will replay this game too, if doesn't exist objections! Here is the result between: Aquilaeian_Vs_Orks. The Aquilaeian wins. Please note that at the turn 340, they opened a hole to the Human race and killed everything! Aquilaeian_vs_Orks_G2.zip Hey, sorry for the problems, but is not easy try to have in mind all the details... This is because I'm posting ALL, trying to keep everything transparent to everybody. Edit: Skulky wrote: "However... each game or series could be distributed for analysis and a whole analysis package could be drawn up with a winner written up. Also big points for any race that can beat the allegiance subverter w/o a mod. ...maybe?" It's ok with me. If you want the job, you will be able to download all the savegames and judge them. To DeathStalker: Thanks, I will download the files from there. [ November 13, 2002, 13:42: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ] |
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Hi MB,
no problem at all. Just as you said there are lots of files and races to be dealt with to make this contest work. It is much easier - and definitely more fun - to check out the results than to create them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif [ November 13, 2002, 14:27: Message edited by: Rexxx ] |
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Well, still are fighting the United Flora against the EEE (this time with the right files!).
And surprise! The EEE are doing a great job and think will win!!! Now it's the turn 319 and the UF are down in the numbers and at the defensive... The UF started in a good way, but at some point, they became lack of organics, and think it changed the course of the game. What a difference with the previous EEE files!!!!!! Good work Rexxx!! Hope could post the files today, because the turns after the turn 350 always start to be verrrrry slow. Tomorrow will be unable to play any game, because need to fly to Buenos Aires. Will continue Friday night. Edit: now it's the turn 382 and the things looks more even. The EEE have 3.0M of points and the UF2.4. Everything could happen! UF with problems with organics, and EEE with problems with radioactives! Sadly, that here we had a new example of a bug that I have already seen in other games: some AI fleets stand without do anything during turns and turns. For example, does exist a EEE fleet into the Baksha system, that is not under Minister Control!!!!!!!!! Similar thing, but with a bunch of UF ships into the same system, coordinates 2,5. Turn 420 and the UF where first in the points, and believed that should start to change the game for their side. Turn 430 and the UF are first, and have 2 strong fleets inside the EEE territory at Cuyrok and Cephedri, but the EEE had an strong fleet in AGR. Turn 440 and the EEE are in the first place again. Their attacks inside Agr, are giving good results for them. Turn 445 and the UF are falling! Lots of riots and Ships abandoned! They only have 871K of points, when 15 turns ago they had more than 3.0 M!! Obviously, both AI's are doing mistakes that the humans doesn't do... If not, nobody could explain the amazing course of this game!!!!!!!!! Turn 447 and the UF have riots everywhere! Turn 453 and the UF only have 326K points! It is strange of seeing, how its strong empire with a winning situation, crumbled in a few turns, as a castle of cards! Turn 470 and the UF did something VERY INTELLIGENT: they surrendered to the EEE. Turn 480 and the EEE have killed the humans! A very interesting game! Sure, sometimes the AI mistakes could irritate the more calm people, but was a cool game! Here is the link UFlora_vs_EEE_G1_with_right_Files.zip [ November 14, 2002, 02:38: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ] |
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I would definitely like to see how the Azorani play with the correct files. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
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But think were the right files... Something strange happened, that was unable to determinate, and was fixed after reboot (damn Windows!). Maybe was a memory problem, or something like that. |
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Last Report before sleep:
Now are playing the Drakol vs Azorani, again... Turn 227, and although the Drakol control more systems, their victory points are 643k, vs 1.2M of the Azorani. Tomorrow if have time, will post the results befor take the taxi to the airport! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Edit: The Azorani are the winners... Here is the link: Drakol_vs_Azorani_Right_Game.zip [ November 14, 2002, 10:53: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ] |
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But think were the right files... Something strange happened, that was unable to determinate, and was fixed after reboot (damn Windows!). Maybe was a memory problem, or something like that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No shot intended. I was a bit rushed when I wrote the reply. I just meant that I want to see how the Azorani do when their designs are consistently being used so that I can tell if I need to tweek anything. |
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Ok, this is embarassing. I uploaded the wrong copy of the Rage. I've corrected the link everywhere I had originally posted it, and here it is again for good measure:
1037251673.zip That's what I get for trying to hurry! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif |
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Wow! This is great guys; some really slugging matches. Tons of fun for everyone. And good excersise for AI race creaters.
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The Vikings defeated the UkraTal. Here is the link: Vikings_vs_UkraTal_G3.zip
Now I'm starting the game between the Namovans and the Pyrochette. |
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The Pyrochette have defeated the Namovans. Was a duel of Temporal Races! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Here is the link: Namovans_vs_Pyrochette_G3.zip Now, are fighting the Praetorian vs the Vaxin... and hehehehehe, these kind races have a Partnership! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif As always, the Praetorians are colonizing very very fast, and have duplicated the number of planets of the Vaxin... If a war is not started, this will be the first match without a KO, and the Vaxin will lose by points... EDIT: hey Captain Kwok, don't worry! Seems to be that even the peaceful people can have problems sometimes!!! The Preateorians killed everyobdy, including the Humans, at the turn 340! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Here the link: Preatorian_vs_Vaxin_G3.zip [ November 16, 2002, 15:46: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ] |
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I wasn't going to say anything - but it has finally got to me...
Shouldn't the thread's title be "AI Death Match Contest"? |
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The Toron have defeated the Xichung. Was something easy for them: only 190 turns.
Here is the link Toron_vs_XiChung_G4.zip Next, will be starting an interesting game: EA vs Rage. Edit: The EA was the winner. Later will post the link. I have expected a Rage victory, at least, a more balanced game... but the EA have erased the Rage before the turn 190! EA_vs_RAGE_G4.zip [ November 17, 2002, 01:22: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ] |
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