Galactic Leadership Style
 

Laid back and Friendly

When I play a Single Player game, I often like to play with a large Dense quadrant (Ala Fyron FQmod 2.0) with the best planet and player settings. I often start with low tech, and high cost. I like the 5k racial points, and often play a custom race which I save often to build up exp points.

My GLS is a moderate to conservative. I seldom explore rapidly, I like to keep my area of influence small and build up gradually. I dedicate to colonizing habitable planets within a five system or more radius around my home system as fast as I can. Each planet has a SY/RSB/Storage/Cargo/and at least 1 of each Mineral/Organic/Radioactive production facilities. The rest of the space is for Research facilities.

Each planet will have both defensive satellites, and weapon platforms.

I research physics first, then move onto other interesting things. I often research Gas/Ice around turn 50 or so after I have maxed out on DUC's and CM's. PD and PPB. Shields and armor are a must as well.

As the game progress, I often choose to be nice to my neighbors as I discover them. But if they turn out to be hostile, I expend all resources defeating them and blockading their Homeworld. I then force them to surrender.

Once I have established a strong resourced storage and production ability, I begin to concentrate upon exploration and conquest. By this time I would have researched fighters, mines, sat, troops, and ship construction to at least level 2 or 3 each.

I plant mines and sats at each WP that I want to control, and eventually have a few patrol ships there to mop up any ship that comes thru. I keep the sats and mines at maximum levels and as the WP becomes more and more contested, I deploy more and more ships to defend it.

One of the biggest flaws in SEIV is the diplomacy. Without warning, a Partnership Ally with a Brotherly standing declares war upon you. That I hate. From that point, that race will always be at war with you.

If Aaron fixes one thing for SEV, it must be diplomacy& politics.

I like to be friendly as long as I can toward the AI, but in the end, usually by turn 100, all things are bad.

Now when I play MP games, I play by differant tactics. Those are mine alone, and have served me well.

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

Likewise, I like to get resource extractors to level 3 fairly quickly, so I get plenty of resources from my few planets.

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

Monoliths are a lot better for maximizing resource production. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

Monoliths also are more expensive and take longer to build. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Plus until you have a functional converter, they're ussually overkill. Especially since if you have a planet that's, oh, 140/10/90, a mineral miner will get a lot more minerals than a monolith, and you don't need the extra rads or pitiful amount of organics that badly.

Phoenix-D

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

Well... converters go hand-in-hand with Monoliths. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Mineral Miners can only make 100 more minerals than Monolith IIIs can. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

"Mineral Miners can only make 100 more minerals than Monolith IIIs can."

Ah, but isn't that 100 times the empire bonus, times the bonus of the planet they are on? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

Assuming no racial construction bonuses, Emergency Build, or population bonuses to construction (which would apply somewhat equally to either situation):

A Mineral Miner III costs 2500/0/0 and produces 1000/0/0, assuming 100%/100%/100%. Assuming a construction rate of 2000/2000/2000, it can be built in 2 turns. Assuming 100%/100%/100%, it will break even after the 3rd turn after it was built for a total of 5 turns to break even.

A Monolith III costs 10000/5000/5000 and produces 900/900/900 assuming 100%/100%/100%. Assuming a construction rate of 2000/2000/2000, it can be built in 5 turns. Assuming 100%/100%/100%, it will break even after the 12th turn after it was built for a total of 17 turns to break even.

Another negative to Monoliths is that in the time it takes to build 2, 5 Mineral Miners can be built, which pushes back the break even point much further when comparing.

A Resource Converter is more helpful to a Monolith, but will benefit the empire no matter what your facility structure is like.

Bottom line: If you need resources NOW, do not use Monoliths. However, if built on planets that have high resource percentages in 2 or 3 of the resources (when you have the time & resources) , in the long run they will outproduce individual resource facilities after a long break even time.

Slick.

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

For me I usually get a set of home sectors, get decent defense and get into the race for max tech really quickly (I usually get everything researched in a relatively short time) and then use max techs and massive fleets to attack and conquer the galaxy
Im usually weaker in the beginning, due to the excessive research planets. I usually build all mineral miners on a good planet, and I start building Monoliths on crappier planets, or when it doesnt matter anyhow (Im getting over 1million of each a turn sometimes, so I dont care, just as long they keep coming)

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

17 turns is the short run. Think ahead. Monoliths, while taking a little longer to build, make 2700 resources! At 50% conVersion (level 1 converter), that translates to 900 + 1800/2 = 1800 minerals, as opposed to just 1000 from a Mineral Miner. And so what if it takes longer to build them? You should have tons of planets before even beginning to convert to a Monolithic economy, so you should have enough full planets to build ships on. As long as you are at peace, you can build Monoliths with no worries! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

granted, i have not even got that far in my game yet, but isn't storage also going to be a factor? It don't matter if I am producing 1m organics a turn if my organics storage is maxed out. You can only keep what you can hold.

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

If you produce more than you can use, you need more space yards.

Converters eliminate surplus in one or 2 areas problems. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

Against the AI:
I like to play Proportions from a one planet, low tech start. I'll get as interesting a quadrant as I can, with NOT all warp points connected, empires allowed to start in the same system, NOT all player planets equal and warp points anywhere in the system.

I'll concentrate on a few key breathables (you sort of have to in proportions), and in my latest game I've taken the 80% planetary capacity trait which really adds challenge: It makes tiny non-breathables practically (but not quite) useless. My goal in this game is to build a ringworld.

I expand quietly, slowly and peacefully, concentrating on infrastructure in order to give the AIs plenty of time to develop the kind of economy/ weaponry that will provide me with a challenge later in the game.

If I find myself trapped in an isolated part of the galaxy with no AIs and no choice but to develop WP openers then so much the better:-) By the time I "break out" there will (hopefully) be a wonderfully advanced alien warmonger on the other side just waiting to give me a decent run for my money. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

In these games I don't develop weapons tech at all until first contact or even first combat, and I try not to start wars (but usually finish them=-)

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

Against the AI
Never settle in a neutrals system
Never trade for more than resourses
Never build traning facilties
Only use Intel in "counter" mode
Never start a war.
When attacked push the AI back two systems and try to hold it there.
Accept any treaty
Only settle one planet type

[ January 15, 2003, 22:10: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

I certainly agree that if you need minerals NOW, mineral miners are the way to go. At least until you have enough minerals/organics/radioactives to build monoliths.

But the 1,000 mineral production of Mineral Miners and the 900 minerals/organics/radioactives production of monoliths can be improved upon.

I may not have the whole picture, so maybe you guys can help me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Assuming the planetary values of minerals/organics/radioactives are each set at 100, a Mineral Miner3 should be able to produce:

Mineral miners III.............1,000 minerals
Mineral scanner III.............300 minerals
Robotoid Factory III...........300 minerals
Sys robotoid Factory III......300 minerals
Total............................1,900 mineral per facility

Since a monolith produces equal amounts of minerals, organics and radioactives, I will use the acronym MOR to denote the equal production of minerals/organics/radioactives. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Monolith III....................900 MOR
Robotoid Factory III.........270 MOR
Sys robotoid Factory III....270 MOR
Total..........................1,440 MOR per facility

Would this be accurate? Or are there other 'facilities' which will increase resource production.

I understand that racial bonuses and population bonuses will have an effect, but at this point I am just wondering if the above catches all the 'facilities' which a player can construct to increase his resourse production.

[ January 23, 2003, 01:09: Message edited by: tbontob ]

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">First, I don't think the Mineral Scanner stacks with the Robotoid.

Second, yes, those are all the facilities for non-racial techs. BUT the Crystalurgy guys get some facilities the generate resources based on number of stars in the system.

But regarding the whole discussion, the math is generally right, but don't forget to figure in cost and constuction time. Example: if you want to fill a planet with Miner III's, you can build 1 every 2 turns. Yes, you can build 1 Miner II every turn and upgrade later, but let's keep it simple. In the time it takes to build 2 Monolith III's (10 turns at default constuction rate), you could have built 5 Miner III's and the first 3 have already broken even and are making a profit.

If the planet can hold 10 facilities, you can fill it with Miner III's in 20 turns and at that time all but the Last few will have turned a profit. It would take 50 turns to fill it with Monolith III's before your math comparison would be valid. That gives the Miner III planet 30 turns at full production even before the Last Monolith is completed!

Now don't get me wrong, I do use Monoliths, but I plan them properly and build them when I have the time and resources to expect the profit will work for my overall game plan.

Other things to think about:
- Miner II's can be built in 1 turn and upgraded later as discussed.
- A Resource Converter will benefit any empire and is slightly more beneficial to the Monolith, but there is a delay time till profit as discussed.
- There are ways to plan ahead for a construction bonus to make your particular plan better. Like selecting construction bonus, quickly piling on the population, making the population Jubilant quickly, etc, etc.
- Building the system-wide facility on another planet so you get the bonus in parallel with construction.

Slick.

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

You only get 2 resource bonuses from facilities. You get the best planet increasing ability, and the best system increasing facility. 2 Robotoids give you as much bonus as you will be able to get. You could use a System Robotoid and then a Planet Mineral Scanner, and they stack. But, a Planet Robotoid and Planet Mineral Scanner do not stack; only the best available bonus is used.

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

Fyron and Slick thanks for the correction re mineral scanners. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Slick, you have gone into the relative benefits in conjunction with the time line very well. You have made a complex subject more comprehensible.

But most of us do not have degrees in mathematics. Even if we did, I wonder if we can render it into a simple (or even complex) formuala. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The question is how to translate what you have said into a feasible construction strategy?

These are my thoughts.
1) If you have lots of MOR, build monoliths.
2) If you do not, build Mineral Miners (and Farms and Colliders as needed).
3) Planetary Robotoid Factories are preferred over Mineral scanners since Planetary Robotoid Factories can be used by Mineral Miners (and Farms and Colliders) as well as Monoliths.
4) Build Planetary Robotoid Factories and Sytem Robotoid Factories where is it economically feasible.
5) When a surplus of minerals, organics and radioactives has occurred or when you are running out of places to build Mineral Miners, consider building Monoliths and even consider scrapping Mineral Miners to build Monoliths.

With all said and done, it is the creation of a surplus which is the difficulty. Any possible surplus can dissipate rapidly with the building of ships.

So, one should consider carefully and ask the question, "Do I really need this ship or can I use the resources to build a Monolith."

Where there is a huge planet with a compatible atmosphere, the answer for some will be "Yes, it makes sense to build a colony ship to colonize it."

Where there is no obvious outside military threat, the answer for some may be "No, it is an acceptable risk to delay building the battle cruiser."

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

It really can't be compressed to an end-all, beat-all formula. There are way too many variables in any one game for any such formula to work well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

Right. It is the fact that this game has so many variables and does NOT have an uber-strategy that guarantees a victory that makes it fun. If there were a formula for victory, this game would hold nobody's interest.

Slick.

PS - I do not have a degree in mathematics... Nuclear & Mechanical Engineering, yes; mathematics, no. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

Yes, I agree. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Which is why I tried to formulate an overall strategy.

A persons knowledge, preferences, racial characteristics and a multitude of other factors will result in a different implementation of the "overall strategy".

Re: Galactic Leadership Style
 

I would be happy if I could just formulate a basic strategy, let alone an uber-strategy
or even a nice race design would be nice. But it takes a lot of time and play to try different race settings.

When you long time players set-up your SP races (not wanting anyone to tip their MP hand). Which race atributes do you like to lower, and how far. I feel once an area is lowered to the point you only get 10 racial points for each percentage, then you have gone too far south with it. Would you say this is accurate? Or do you gladly take the ten per and max it all the way down?