Plague bomb..
 

I simpy don't understand this: I play AIC game and at war with EVIL Fazrah. I have one colony in the system. It is well defended and has medical lab II - prevents plaque 3 in AIC. Still, during the battle Fazrah drops plague bomb II and next turn - my planet is dead !!! medical lab survived the battle - I still had dozens of WP on the planet. It was simultaneous turn game.
WHY ??? My planet should be immune to plaque II ??
Or it is not how it works...

Re: Plague bomb..
 

maybe it can only cure a plague on the turn after.

Re: Plague bomb..
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But that is a DISASTER for AIC/proportions games ! Colonies usually have less than 100M, and since plaque kills >100M per turn, there is no way to save the planet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Re: Plague bomb..
 

make them 200kT? make the research cost 20k base?

Practically i believe it works just as you press NEXT TURN, supposedly meaning next turn you'll see the colony plagued.

Re: Plague bomb..
 

Have you tried medical bays (e.g. on a space station)? As far as I know it cures plagues immediately, while the facilities apparently only work when you process the turn.

Re: Plague bomb..
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can't http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif JLS moded AIC in a way medical bay cures plague I only. For higher levels you must build special facilities (like medlab)

Oh. sorry. AIC still have them. Just different name. Will try http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

But, if buildings can not stop plague for first tun, it keeps AI vulnerable ! It should be immune to plague - several AI buildings have build-in plague prevention, but if it doesnot work... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ June 29, 2003, 11:54: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: Plague bomb..
 

oleg: that means Mechanoid racial trait is finaly worthwhile...

Re: Plague bomb..
 

Oleg, I agree that something is not right here; those facilities should stop the plague before it destroys the colonly. Perhaps 10% population loss before total cure.

But let me point out that a couple of light cruisers with ordinary weapons could wipe out a small colony just as quickly as plague.

Re: Plague bomb..
 

In simultaneous move games, plagues do one turn of damage before being cured by facilities. I am not sure what happens in sequential games though.

Re: Plague bomb..
 

you get to cure it IF your after the damaged player? just a thought

Re: Plague bomb..
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, but it was the AIC game and I had a very nice Proportionesque colony with 20+ weapon platforms !

It decimated a big enemy fleet without loss of a single WP ! But one frigate sneaked and drop plague bomb before been blown from sky. It was enough http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

How it did happened - small ships in AIC can be very fast. Fazrah' frigates have 6 moves per combat turn (contrterran engines). Plague bomb has a range of 5. My small WP had a range of 10. Thus, by pure luck one frigate just jumped in and droped the bomb.

JLS, let's give plague bomb range of 1 - that should give a chance for the planet to defend itself !

Re: Plague bomb..
 

What are the Plague Damages for the various (5?) levels of plague?

If the weapon damage is moderately irrelevant way, oh why, does it get weapon-style mounts?

Personally, I like plague bombs. The AI can still whoop-up on me, so I occasionally need methods like this. It would be better if the AI could do something about it, though...

Re: Plague bomb..
 

In AIC when you start your new game. From the {Technology Menu} Human Players can REMOVE BIO WEAPONS from there game, if desired http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The Plague Bomb represented in AIC is the same as in the Stock se4 Component http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The Bio Weapon used by the AI Player Fazrah is the same that is available to the Human Players.

Is the Fazrah the First AI Player that you have ever seen use a Plague Bomb, in your se4 games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

The Fazrah is not a usual leader on average, with the AIC AI Player Leader Board.

When playing AI Campaign, as a Human Player please feel free to use any Weapon against the AI Players; this includes the Plague Bomb.

If this results in a real problem, I will revise the Standard se4 Plague Bomb component to be less potent for a future AIC update.

Fyron: do one turn of damage before being cured by facilities. {JLS: Agreed, only if Hospitals today could Cure-All before a Virus hits, I WOULD NOT HAVE THIS FLU}
Taera: that means Mechanoid racial trait is finaly worthwhile http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Grandpa Kim: But let me point out that a couple of light cruisers with ordinary weapons could wipe out a small colony just as quickly as plague.
Loser: Aren't they more interesting as a viable weapon

Please add some suggestions for next update:
Taera: a higher research cost base http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Taera: Cut the range in half maybe, but bio weaps should still be a viable weapon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Ed Kolis: Revise description http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
oleg: How about level one - range one. level two - range two, etc http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif


Mechanoid racial trait cost = AIC is currently at 300 Cost. The se4 cost is 1000 Points

[ June 30, 2003, 16:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Plague bomb..
 

My rant is basicaly not against plague bombs per se, but about the inability of medical lab to stop the plague for one, usually fatal turn !

It would be best if we could mod how many people die from the plague. But since it is apparently hard coded, bio-weapons should be made less potent in AIC/Proportions. Range of one looks best for me.

Re: Plague bomb..
 

We cannot do anything here with system-wide buildings to stop the plagues. I.E. Med Labs and/or Bio Hospitals. Just help with the Cure, after it hits http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Fyron does have a valid point; a one-turn hit does make sense.

[ June 30, 2003, 15:18: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Plague bomb..
 

The description does say "PREVENTS plagues in system", not "CURES plagues in system" though...

Re: Plague bomb..
 

What is the unmoddable damage for each different level of plague?

Someone has the numbers, don't they?

Re: Plague bomb..
 

Agreed Ed, this chould be changed in se4 and MODS, to read better on the Ability # Descr itself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Number of Abilities := 3
Ability 1 Type := Plague Prevention - System
Ability 1 Descr := Prevents level 1 plagues in this system.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 1
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0

Name := Medical Lab I
Description := Advanced medical center which cures the ill and helps prevent disease.

Re: Plague bomb..
 

dont give the weapon range of 1 as it makes it pretty much obsolete, given the strength of WP's - when developed correctly. Cut the range in half maybe, but bio weaps should still be a viable weapon. I think.

Re: Plague bomb..
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">here is more information :
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...;f=23;t=009411

Re: Plague bomb..
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How about
level one - range one
level two - range two
...

That will keep it in tune with WP weapons (sort of)

Re: Plague bomb..
 

I ran a test on plagues to see how much damage they do. Here are my results of each level over 5 turns:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Level: 1 2 3 4 5
11 60 108 178 340
11 60 100 179 321
12 59 109 151 348
10 52 111 154 321
10 58 115 169 323</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So, here are some proposed ranges that fit the data I have gathered:
Level 1: 10-15 pop/turn
Level 2: 50-60 pop/turn
Level 3: 100-120 pop/turn
Level 4: 150-180 pop/turn
Level 5: 320-350 pop/turn

=0=

I think there is a bug with range 1 weapons targeting planets that prevents them from hitting the planet from some (or all) sides... was it fixed in 1.84 or does it remain?

[ June 30, 2003, 21:27: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Plague bomb..
 

Numbers! Thank you, Fyron.

Does a plague wear off before everybody dies?

If a Large Storage Expert AI Homeworld on the FQM has a full population (15B) and it is hit with a level 1 Plague, will it remain Plagued throughout the rest of the game, easily able to recover the lost population every round but never inclined to cure the plague?

Re: Plague bomb..
 

Plagues Last until they are cured, even after all pop is dead.

Plagued planets have 0% reproduction rate, and get large happiness penalties each turn they are plagued.

Re: Plague bomb..
 

i think there is some random chance to 'miraculously' find a cure to the plague on the planet. or was it only in se3?

Re: Plague bomb..
 

Was that even in SE3, or just as myth? I have never seen or heard anything of the sort for SE4. There is a cure plague ability for events that is unused, so it is possible to mod such an event in, but the chances of it happening to a plagued planet (unless it is hard-coded to only happen to them) are slim to nil.

[ June 30, 2003, 22:50: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Plague bomb..
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No longer true, once the population has all expired, the planet reverts to uncolonized and may be recolonized by anyone without fear of residual contagin.

Re: Plague bomb..
 

I am still immune! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Plague bomb..
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Aren't they more interesting as a viable weapon?

Re: Plague bomb..
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Aren't they more interesting as a viable weapon?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In normal SE bombs are just fine as now. I am talking about Proportions and AIC. Population is basically scaled down by a factor of 10 at least. 100M+ damage from plague is just too high - there are few planets with such numbers even late in the game.

The inability of system-wide buildings to stop the plague is very bad thing in AIC !

Re: Plague bomb..
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well that is dumb. Spores could be left behind. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif SE3 kept the plague around on the planet if you recolonized the planet.

Re: Plague bomb..
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Whether it is dumb or not depends on the purpose of the plauge (we are speaking of artifical plauges here, no?). If the purpose is to clean an enemy colony for colonization, then it would be very handy if the plauge died with the Last available host. If the purpose is to render a planet useless (perhaps when deep behind enemy lines where a friendly colony would be immediately captured) then you would want persistant spores. It might be nice if this were moddable, but it makes sense either way; just for different purposes.

Re: Plague bomb..
 

Not all plagues are artificial.

Re: Plague bomb..
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He didn't say they were. If you will note, he did say (in parentheses) <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">... which would indicate that he knows that.

[ July 01, 2003, 00:52: Message edited by: Phule ]

Re: Plague bomb..
 

nm...

[ July 01, 2003, 00:53: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Plague bomb..
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He didn't say they were. If you will note, he did say (in parentheses)

Quote:

we are speaking of artifical plauges here, no?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">... which would indicate that he knows that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You beat me to it....

Re: Plague bomb..
 

I noticed on Proportions that the homeworld is immune to a plague bomb. But a minor spaceport city is not enough to protect a new colony.

If we can't mod plague damage, maybe it should be removed from AIC. Proportions can just outlaw it on play by web by group decision.

Of course, it was always evil against the AI in the standard game. The AI never builds medical bays, so its helpless.

Re: Plague bomb..
 

The discussion was on plagues in general, not just plague bombs. The topic drifted from them specifically a while ago. Of course there should be some control over what plague bombs do, but that does not mean that natural plagues should act like artificial ones in every regard (which they currently do). There are a large number of virii and such that cause plagues that are quite capable of continuing to exist on the planet in either spores or in host creatures that are not modeled by SE4. In fact, most "plagues" are transmitted to humans (aliens) through a carrier, and would be able to remain inert until humans (aliens) return or are quite capable of surviving in spore form until suitable hosts return. This is why SE4 plagues are dumb. Of course, it is also dumb that all plagues affect all (non-mechanoid) races equally.

Re: Plague bomb..
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Even with natural plauges it makes sense either way, as both types exist on Earth. It would be nice if this were moddable (e.g., two classes of plauge: persistant and non-persistant); perhaps this should be a request for SEV. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It would be quite reasonable to require different plauges for each atmosphere type, or to have variable plauge resistance available as a racial trait. However, that might be more complex than some people would like. Besides, can you imagine having to equip your plauge ship with three different types of plauges in order to deal with everyone you are at war with? Sure, you could do multiple designs for multiple fronts, each with just one type of plauge, but still....

[ July 01, 2003, 01:12: Message edited by: Jack Simth ]

Re: Plague bomb..
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Plagues are only 20 kT, and you only need one to kill a planet (or 50 planets), so it is really a null issue. And yes, I can imagine that, and it would be greatly preferable to the current system.

Re: Plague bomb..
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ah, silly me; you're right.

Re: Plague bomb..
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh you're going for the scorched galaxy plan are you? Well then you'll love the handy dandy Radiation Bomb from Scumco WMD Inc. One hit and the planet is useless for further colonization. Usefull for those pesky alien colonies that you can't colonize yourself, or just because you're a rotten intergalatic despot. Order yours today!

Re: Plague bomb..
 

no loser, it should be glowing and screaming/puking when talking about radbomb http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

(this forum REALY needs an evil smilie)

Re: Plague bomb..
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can import them from http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/charac1.htm:
http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk...e/evilgrin.gif
http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/devil_2.gif
http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/devil.gif
http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk.../FIREdevil.gif
http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/evileye.gif
That was produced by:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk...e/evilgrin.gif
http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/devil_2.gif
http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/devil.gif
http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk.../FIREdevil.gif
http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/evileye.gif</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

[ July 01, 2003, 20:50: Message edited by: Jack Simth ]

Re: Plague bomb..
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's Mr. Yuck, the standardized symbol for poisons that keeps children safe!

[ July 01, 2003, 20:53: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: Plague bomb..
 

Re: Plague bomb..
 

true jack, true, and i know more places for smilies (plus google helps) but still, it'd be better if the forum itself would have one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Plague bomb..
 

Yeah, it might. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Plague bomb..
 

Yeah, it might. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif