Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

When playing a koth I noticed that it is possible to lay sats on someone planet without getting shot at.
Is it also possible to lay mines with a non-weapon ship on top of a planet (enemy) with weapon platforms??

Thanks

sparhawk

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

I don't see any problem doing that.

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

The only problem is the SEIV combat has an annoying habit sometimes of placing you ship too close to teh planet at the start of combat. If the WP's have enough range they can get you. Although it might launch mines before combat so you still may get to lay your field.

Geoschmo

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

The only thing about laying mines over an enemy's planet is that it won't stop that planet from building ships, bases or fighters. Only ships or units traveling to that planet will get hit by the mines.

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

yeah but.. you can do this wholesale before combat starts. Then when your opponent starts to bring his fleets together.. boom! Pick a resupply base of his for maximum effect. I once took out half a dozen carriers this way, very sweet.

The other trick is to mine the best planets before they are ever colonised of course; its a rare player who puts minesweepers with his colonisers.

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, I'm pretty sure any ship built there will be fine but just wait till it tries to leave. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, I'm pretty sure any ship built there will be fine but just wait till it tries to leave. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I thought leaving a mine-field sector was safe aswell as staying there, only when entering was the mines armed, isn't it so?

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

I also thought that mine damage was only applied when entering a sector, not being created there or leaving. I have not tested this, though.

Slick.

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

You are right. Only entering the mine sector encounters mines, not leaving, or being built there, or sitting there, or anything else.

PvK

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It should be before combat if I read 14.0 Turn Sequencing correctly:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

The sequence is not enirely correct, J) Retrofit/Mothball and K) Repair happen before F)Income.
I haven't tested yet if mine laying really happens before combat, has anyone else?

[ July 17, 2003, 20:21: Message edited by: Roanon ]

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

I was under the impression that combat also occurs whenever new ships arrive at a location with hostiles, and my guess is that would happen before minelaying, but I haven't tested it.

PvK

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

I think J) RETROFIT happens before movement and combat, too.

PvK

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

Without testing (relying on my memory), I'm pretty sure I have sent a minelayer to a wormhole to launch mines, get my turn and see it was killed and yet there were mines in the sector.

As I also recall, ships leaving the area where I had launnched (the next turn), suffered mine damage.

But I could be wrong on the Last point.

[ July 17, 2003, 23:21: Message edited by: Slynky ]

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

I'm pretty sure I've seen my minelayers get destroyed in their target sector and left mines some times and not on others. Perhaps it depends on both their movement rate and that of the attacking ships.

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Me too, saw this in my Last PBW. But no idea about any movements left or not.

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think you are correct in your assessment that Retrofit/Mothball and Repair comes before Income.

I do know that retrofit costs come out of storage. If income comes first, then excess income would go into storage allowing more retrofits to take place. As this doesn't happen, it would appear retrofitting comes first.

In my experience, mine laying from a planet happens before combat. I don't have experience of minelaying from a ship.

[ July 18, 2003, 06:30: Message edited by: tbontob ]

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This could be so and I would think it is easily testable by having a no weapons ship retrofitted to weapons. If it can fire its weapons against another ship in the same turn, then retrofit would indeed come before movement/combat.

The same situation may apply to repair as well.

If nobody can give a definitive answer on this, I will test it in the near future and update the facts in the Newbie Fax.

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

Thanks guys, so laying mines on a planet will work.
And those mines will only do their work if ships are entering, and not working if ships are build there of moving out of it.

Sparhawk

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

Yeah, for getting them after they are built and move out of that sector you mine the eight sectors around it. And if you have the resources to do that, randomly mine other sectors throughout his system. After your opponent hits the first few some resources might be allocated to extra mine sweepers, or mine sweeping capability on every ship, or just the bullets that he'll be sweating as each turn comes in and he doesn't know what ship he lost to a random mine this time.

Or not.

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

You don't even necessarily have to mine all 8 sectors around the planet. Most ships tend to follow predictable paths, generally the shortest, to warp points/other planets/etc. You can anticipate their route and place mines in those sectors. For a little while, you might really mess up an opponent's ship travels! Imagine how paranoid he can get when he has to escort every ship with a minesweeper!! Oh the fun in seeing that!

You might even try (if the target lacks sensors) to use cloaked minelayers to drop them over a planet. It's possible in that case your ships won't engage, and he won't be the wiser, until too late, to find out what you have done.

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

And, to confirm:

I just had a minelayer killed at a warp point. There were no mines at the beginning of the turn at that point. There were mines at the end of the turn. (but no ship). So, you CAN lay mines SOMEWHERE during combat.

And, until someone conclusively tests it and says it does not work the way I think it does, I'll still rely on my memory and think that either entering or departing a sector with mines will cause them to detonate.

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Don't rely on your memory anymore!

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

Slynky I tested it yesterday after you brought it up and it didn't work for 1.84. Mines only detonated when my ships entered the sector.

That's not to say your memory isn't correct. It's possible it used to do what you say and was patched out. I have no recollection of it though.

Geoschmo

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's good enough for me. My memory being what it is, I don't think I was "remembering" so far back that it was another Version. I seem to recall it being in the Last 6-9 months. Oh well.

Tks for the testing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

So if a player in simultaneous tells his planet to build mines and then launch mines (assuming he had some unlaunched mines laying around) then this will all happen before combat, right?

Second question (sorry this is sats). If you launch all 100 satelites in one shot, will you get just one stack? Or does this only depend upon the number of types of satelites? Will a single stack fire everything at one ship, or will they fire at another ship assuming ship #1 is destroyed? I'm thinking I should build more sat types, but am unsure...

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The only ones which will launch are the ones already in storage.

New mines are put into storage and can be launched at the beginning of the next turn.

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

Oh, that's good to know!

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Satellites in a sector will always be in one stack, but the sats will fire individually. Having multiple designs is a good thing. You can give them different strategies so they can fire at different targets. As well, offensive and defensive bonuses from one satellite apply to all satellites in the stack.

New question: If you try to lay mines in a sector with enemy mines present, will you still be able to lay your mines or will your ship and cargo be destroyed first?

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You mean that I only need one sensor component on one of the satelites, and they will all have that level of sensors!!?? Likewise ECM, etc? That's a little excessive if true, isn't it?

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

Think about what happens when you add a satellite with a Talisman to the stack.

Re: Question: Laying mines on top of a enemies planet
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly right, Jimbob. It does seem excessive, but it helps to balance out their immobility and singular location. This blanket coverage also applies to scattering and, more importantly, stealth armor, since the stealth factor cannot be turned off! A ship or fleet without appropriate sensors will fly right by without engaging in combat. You need an uncloaked ship or another type of unit in the sector as well to "expose" your powerful sat group.