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Old June 26th, 2005, 04:47 PM
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Arralen Arralen is offline
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Default Re: obat44 - West Germany

Helge, would be great if you read my postings a little bit more accuratly:

1) Carl Gustav wasn't used in antitank role as early as '88. In '88/'89 we had 3 per PzGren Kompanie, but NO(!) ammo at all. We were told the new PzFst would come soon, and that it wasn't clear if and what for the old Carl Gustavs would be used in the future.
It is still used for battlefield illumination - and only in that role. But we don't have battlefield illumination in SPMBT.

2) Delivery of PzFst3 to the troops started in '92. Considering that it was in development since '72 IIRC, it is not that amazing that for basic training the old lPzfst 44mm Lanze was still used in '94, especially as the systems are not that different.


And if you don't trust one source on the web, here some more remark from those which "have been there, done it" ... :
"Dass die schw PzFst durch die PzFst3 abgelöst wurde wie auf vielen Seiten beschrieben, stimmt meines Wissens so nicht. Die PzFst3 wurde 1992 in die Bw eingeführt, und zu diesem Zeitpunkt wurde mit der schw PzFst schon nur noch Gefechtsfeldbeleuchtung geschossen. Mit Einführung der PzFst3 wurden dann die leichten Panzerfäuste 44mm im Tausch zurückgeliefert."
http://www.fussle.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5998

"That the SchwPzFst was replaced by the PzFst3, as described in multiple sources, is as far as I know not correct. The PzFst3 was introduced in 1992, and at that point the SchwPzFst was already only for battlefield illumination. With the issuing of the PzFst3 the lPzFst 44mm where returned in exchange."

"Zur schw Leuchtbüchse selbst nach was: Richtig ist, das die Leuchtbüchse nicht der direkte Vörgänger der PzFst 3 ist. Das war, wie ebenfalls richtig erwähnt, die lPzFst "Lanze". Die Leuchtbüchse ist normalerweise in der selben Anzahl wie das PARS Milan vorhanden. Denn dafür wurde die Büchse im Dienst gehalten. Wenn man sich mal die Schußweite, in der die Leuchtbüchse genutzt wird anschaut, wird klar, das sich die mit knapp 2000m ziemlich genau mit der der Milan deckt. Denn am Anfang der nutzung der Milan gab noch kein MIRA für die Milan. Das heißt das PARS war nicht nachtkampffähig. Und damit man die Milan auch bei Nacht einsetzen kann, man die Leuchtbüchse vorgesehen. "

Ok, I'm too lazy to translate this entirely. Basically it says, that there always were the same numbers of "Schwere Leuchtbüchse" and Milan ATGMs, which didn't have night vision equipment in the first version. the range of the "Schwere Leuchtbüchse" was essentially the same (2000m) as the range of the Milan, to make it possbile to use the Milan for night fighting.
[Our Milans had MIRA imaging equipment..., so we didn't need the Carl Gustavs for battlefield illu]

All in all, I must say it's astonishing difficult to get any hard facts about Bundeswehr equipment at all. Not because it's top-secret (it's still a conscript army), but because everything is so obscure and mixed-up and unsure (because it's a conscript army ?!).

However, I'll try to get official data about Panzerfaust, Milan I and II, the Marder and other items. May take some time, though....
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