[cbo]

Originally Posted by Cross

It was also brought up that the major reason for the abuse of Z-fire, was because most units just had far too much ammo. This spawned a second thread about ammo loadouts here:

There was discussion about realistic ammo loads carried by squads, and how is it that squads in SPWW2 can maintain sustained fire throughout a battle without re-supply?

That is not strictly true, is it? Infantry units carry 80-90 "rounds" of small arms fire (rifle, MG) and an experienced unit can fire 5-6 "rounds" pr. turn if stationary, unsuppressed etc.

So if a unit was firing constantly, the ammo would last 13-18 turns - less than the duration of many battles.

Admittedly, infantry units rarely run low on or out of small arms ammunition, but that would seem to be because they spend their time out of range, moving or in a state of suppression, meaning that they do not fire as much as they could.

But if you are in a tough infantry battle, you can actually end up firing most of it, if not all - at least I have on several occassions. But I tend to like those drawn out infantry slugfests

Seems to me that infantry units need a lot of ammo for those types of battle, while they may seem overstocked for the more mobile types of fight which many players may prefer?

I’ve been playing SP for 7 or 8 years, and I’ve never had an infantry or MG unit run out of ammo! Currently in SP, ammo shortages are usually only an issue for artillery units.

While I agree that infantry rarely run out of small arms ammo, I have them run out of heavy weapons ammo often. Support weapons like mortars always seem to run low or out, be they with infantry units or seperate units. My tanks often run out of HE when fighting mainly infantry and guns, and run out of AP in tank battles. But again, I like to engage at long ranges whenever some small advantage can be gained.
As you say, artillery always runs out, it seems.

1. Lower the maximum ammo loads of certain units to the point that you actually have to conserve ammo or get re-supplied.
(Personally I’d leave most AFV as they are, but lower the ammo levels for infantry and MG units. Mech units could have higher ammo loadouts, but still lower than current levels.)

AFVs should definately be left out. They carry in the game what they had room for in reality, which may in some cases be too little as it was not unknown for crews to stack extra rounds. Making some arbitrary reduction just because some people think some other people make excessive use of Z-fire seems over the top.

I must admit, I dont really see why the tediousness of resupply is all that attractive. People who need the extra ammo would just by ammosupply and fire away. As many do now for their artillery. So fighting a Z-fire addict would remain as boring as previously.

On a side note, I seem to recall a discussion way back, when some people were angry with others for using excess artillery. To me, it seems more a case of player preferences - some like to use a lot of firepower, others prefer to manouver (or not to get shot at ).

2. Make Z-fire cost 5x or 10x the ammo. (This may not be possible to code)

Wouldn't bother me much, as I dont use the feature much, but why should it expand more ammo? IIRC Z-fire is quite in-accurate and in-effective. True, if you bunch up a lot of units in one place and the opponent pour on Z-fire from several of his units, it can be effective - but how is that not realistic?
The fire is still treated as the same "bursts" as normal fire, IIRC?

3. Create a realism slider button (like the Infantry/Tank toughness ones) to give players the choice to lower ammo loads for certain types of units.

Again, the issue is not ammo load, in my opinion, it is that some people doesn't like opponents who use a lot of Z-fire. So instead of tampering with ammo loads, why not make a Z-fire effectiveness button or a Z-fire ammo expenditure button? Or a Z-fire On/Off button? Then it would at least adress the percieved Z-fire problem.

There already exists an Ammo Limit ON/OFF button in the realism preferences; but with ammo loadouts so high for most units, it really only limits artillery.

I'd have to disagree, effectively it limits all units and weapons except infantry (and perhaps AFV) small arms.

My two ørers worth, anyway.

cbo