[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by Illuminated One

Taking provinces is merely a function of economy also. Clamming is not very interesting, but if you're stuck between a rock and a hard place it's better than just waiting or going kamikaze against neighbours you can't beat now.

It's unproblematic in midgame, everything else just keeps happening. I think the real reason for late game unfun is that attacking becomes very unrewarding.
Luck is a much larger factor than in midgame (maybe the largest), first spell and 50 round advantage, and 90% of your holdings can be replace by the first province you conquer with a 20 gem thug.
If I ended up with the largest income in late game I would just sit back without clams, my position doesn't get weaker.

Err.. that quote in your post is from me, not from Zeldor.

If you're stuck between the rock and the hard place, how about building forts+labs for more mages and research? Clamming isn't the only option to improve your position when you can't assault someone. Besides, clamming does not neccessarily mean that you have to turtle. You just have 1-3 mages doing clams and that is the extent of your resources. Strong nation is able to wage war and clam fine. Clamming isn't somehow more beneficial to nations in poor position.

You have a point about the late-game wars. Gold doesn't really mean anything, so provinces only really serve as buffers.

I get my late-game kicks from seeing all that epic stuff happening. Attacking is exciting for me, since I can't really be *that* sure about what I'll exactly be facing. But I really haven't played too much late games in MP. I could imagine that vets no longer experience that thrill, having seen everything all ready.

Originally Posted by Illuminated One

If I ended up with the largest income in late game I would just sit back without clams, my position doesn't get weaker.

If you have largest income (you probably mean gem income, right?), you can also clam more than any other nation, giving you a theoretical timevantage (since the gems from the clams would allow you to clam even more). So your statement holds true even with clams in the picture.