[LDiCesare]

I am curious though, you said a few changes in CB unbalance things a lot, which of these do you think do that? Most seem like rather niche things (like national spells), thematic complaints, or even just additional change requests CB hasn't made.

Mostly one change: umbrals. Without the change I will gladly play EA Agartha, with it I will not touch them, so it ruins an entire nation.
Also horrors. I don't think Bogarus needs them that much, and it boosts other nations without need.
I also admit that CBM needs rethinking a lot of things I learnt the hard way, and I should work more to learn it. It is not bad but makes me unhappy when I realise too late something was changed that I hadn't expected.

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

I appreciate the feedback, I hope other people also comment on these issues.

I have yet to see them used in any Dom 3 game, vanilla or CB. In fact I was even contemplating perhaps they are not boosted enough. Thinking about it, I think their unpopularity probably has to do with the Eye Shield, for 10n a generally more all purpose SC counter, that also lets you wield another weapon like a frost brand.

I used them with a lady of love who was quite efficient with them. A frost/fire brand + shield would have been stronger. They were still useful in expanding.

I don't completely understand what you are saying, it doesn't change much to lower it's level, but it makes construction more interesting than evocation?

If you want to get access to acid, instead of researching evocation you now research construction. I think at Cons 4 with a lower gem price it'd be better than Cons 2 with same price.

I'm not sure it's no-brainer, because it often comes after the caster's empire as well. In fact I once even had it kill the god that cast the global, dispelling itself.

I think they only attack blood mages? Which can restrict the risk a lot.

I hate to break it to you, but Bogarus uses horrors quite prolifically base game as well (just the send horror kind since the battle summon is so crappy). And, in fact, R'yleh has a horribly hard time using horrors in base game or CB

That's a mostly thematic complaint. To me horrors are yet another stuff from beyond the world like R'lyeh are. I don't understand why russian-like people would use these, particularly when they have tons of national summons. I feel they shouldn't have to use horrors. That's not so much a balance issue as something I feel unthematic.

That's a pretty minor tweak to think is greatly unbalanced. I don't think I have ever heard anyone complain demons of the heavenly fire are too good.

I don't say it is greatly unbalanced. I just love them personally.

This does seem to be a widely unpopular change. I still think it's justified, but maybe I will look at undoing it. Do you think +1 gem cost would be more acceptable?

Yes.

I don't understand- they seem to fly just fine.

If I mass some of them and tell them to attack rearmost they never will unless I put some other flier in the group. They just crawl forward on the battlefield like they were turtles.

Mainly, because I think she needs it more (rainbows get a bunch of extra research from magic picks). Also, it doesn't seem a goddess of knowledge should necessarily be less good at research than an uppity human sage.

Maybe but if you have to choose between her and the human sage, why would you pick the sage?

Not exactly, but they certainly make Man's other troops look bad. Keep in mind CB is not mostly about nation balance, it's about option balance. I could look again at making the other stuff cheaper instead, but keep in mind other people have complained about troops being arbitrarily cheaper in Cb (I like to keep to rules like spear = -1 gold). It's easier to increase cost for elite troops since it's vague exactly how how much bonus stats are worth gold wise.

I don't think the cost change makes much of a difference with regard to other troops. Spearmen sole use was they were 'fast'. Now axe and longspears are fast too. Unless I need mobility though, I still won't buy them over tower guards so the cost of tower guards/defenders doesn't do much to increase the value of the other units.