Mega non-random map

[Twan]

Sometimes ago when Xietor asked for map preferences for megagame, I've started to make this big map, which main goal are to offer both balanced start areas (same number & kind of neighbours etc like in world of geometry) and less uninspired geography than in a random map (some regions with caves, harbors, diverse looks for regions etc).

After placing all caps and drawing all fronteers I was a little tired, renounced to finish and propose it for this game, and so stopped working on it for some weeks. I'm now continuing it slowly and started to add terrains.

Preview in its current (of course unfinished) state :





Current caracteristics are :
- 66 start locations (59 land, 7 sea -> I hope a sea nation will be added before the map is used, as allowing LA Rl'yeh would probably not be a good idea)
- minimal distance between 2 land or 2 sea caps : 4 indie provinces (in some cases only 3 provs between a land cap and a sea cap)
- seas aren't connected, sea nations have access to about 13,5 seas/player in their starting lakes (and never start alone in one)
- 17,04 prov/ player (1125 provinces including 120 seas) -> first tried 15, but was hard to respect minimal distances
- full wraparound
- map is rather open (there are natural barreers and choke points, but not in all regions, most provinces have 4+ neighbours)
- pure land caps have 5 neighbours : farm + plain + forest + (mountain or border mountain) + (swamp or waste) ; coastal caps have 4 land neighbours : farm + plain + forest + (mountain or border mountain) and 2 sea neighbours, and there is always an isle nearby reachable by sailing ; sea caps have 5 neighbours, 4 sea and a deep sea ; I also plan to give same population total around capitols
- start locations are visible (would be easy to deduct where they are, anyway)
- not tried to make possibilities of expansion out of these starting areas equal (incredibly huge work to give same number/kind of provinces for second circle after capitol + would make the map too geometric and repetitive)
- as I have time to do that, I'd like to include special provinces in this map (some special sites, garrisons, gateways, etc) to reduce monotony of indie conquests and make some provinces more strategic (but I'll try to avoid to create unbalances of course) on the other hand I'd let it pure vanilla if players prefer

As map is not finished, it's not too late to make some changes; and it would be sad to do all this hard work and see it not used, so if people are for or against some ideas, or have some they'd like to see included for a future megagame map, say it here.

(* note that some answers would force me to change or add so many things I doubt I've be motivated to follow them)

[Twan]

ps : a part of an answer about rich provinces is missing
"like in cradle of dominions" = with some free cities (large freshwater farmlands with 20+k population)

[Gandalf Parker]

That looks like a great image for being non-random. Kudos on it. I will look forward to it being available.

Just my humble opinion from being involved in maps from the beginning... Some of those are items that can be added to the .map file, or if the .map file is run thru a secondary generator such as SemiRand. I think the map image looks great. I would make it available with a very basic .map file. Go ahead and decide the things that the image and .map file have to agree on such as the province sizes and choke point questions. Check for duplicated province names and correct that irritation.

I would leave things such as richness to the game settings.

Settings such as special provinces, special balances, starting points, etc you can leave up to 3rd party programs. Or you can do another .map for the same image file. Including 2, 3, 4 .map files in the same zip isnt a problem. They will show up as seperate maps (if you name them different inside the file) and use the same large graphic file. People would probably appreciate being able to have 3 or 4 really large maps to play different types of games on, without having to take up a ton of space in their maps directory having that many huge graphic images.
Just IMHO

[Endoperez]

Many sites/special sites:

I only voted for manysites, not for pre-set sites. I don't want to have guaranteed indy mages in spesific areas. Provinces with good, #knownfeature gem sites are fine, and some special summons or recruitables are fine, but no mages please. Unless you want them, of course, because you're the one making the map.


Great work so far! Thanks for all the effort.

[Twan]

Some things (special sites, gateways, free cities, harbours etc) are better to be represented on the image (if I use them), so people don't have to read the map file to know where they are.

Specials like population or sites or even connexions can always be removed, or .map re-generated to change anything. I'll probably post a v0.1 vanilla version just after map editor stage anyway.

But my questions applies to the kind of features / balance elements players would like to effectively see included in a map *used for a massive multiplayer*.

This map is built around start positions, because the main reason I like non-random maps is to have as equal possible start areas in MP (when I don't see their interest for SP), and looking like they should look (I know some map generators adjust neighbours etc... to allow better start position, but they don't adjust the image, then you end with farmlands looking like swamps, unintuitive connexions between provinces etc).

Then I also like maps with special strategic provinces, and some gateways in huge maps, but it's more an option.

But considering it's a MP map needing 66 players to be used, I see no interest in spending time on a map version with all these hand made features and balance elements, to then see a random map (or a map version with all special removed) prefered, it's why I ask.

[Edratman]

Twan. it sounds like you are proposing 2 maps. A basic map for "everyday" use and the same map with many map edits for MP. That sounds like a very good idea to me.

By the way, I love 1500 province maps. You can play the same map 20-30 times and continually be surprised by the opportunities available in different locations, specially if there are gateways/ports that allow travl to non-adjacent provinces.

[Atreidi]

When will you finish the map?

[Twan]

Hum... Started to draw the terrains more than a week ago and less than a half is done. Also I'll try to make minimal distance between caps 5 provinces, so I have a lot of fronteers to change (and more natural barreers explaining the unpassable borders to add).

Then there is the map editor phase. Then the manual edition of the .map file (for start locations etc...). Then the longest step is testing the map and fix missing/wrong neighbours etc.

I think I can say map will be ready for the next megagame anyway.

[Zeldor]

I would rather expect 2 new land nations [machakas] added in a patch, not a water nation.

[Twan]

As I doubt a megagame will start before next spring, I think it's better to let space for one more, just in case (also a recent patch note say the unit cap will be higher, if it's really very high even LA rlyeh may be usable).

In worse case LA Atlantis can easily be modded to start underwater as all units are amphibious, and the free coastal spot used for one more land nation.