What am I doing wrong?

krpeters · #1 November 25th, 2011, 11:04 AM

So, I tried a chassis today which I thought was pretty good, but the RNG didn't like very much. I GoR'd a gargoyle and kitted him out, including an amulet of Magic Resistence. With the enemy's drain scale of 1, his total MR was 17. I thought that should be reasonably adeqauate.

Instead, one of the enemy mages (S2) casts Control, and my Gargoyle is toast.

So how much MR do I need for an effective thug? I don't mind losing a thug after several turns of stomping chaff, but for the enemy mage to fry him on the *first try* scares me. Or was I just unlucky? Or does the AI cheat badly? I was playing against Mighty opponents. The mage in question was a CBM King of the Deep W2E2S2 with a pile of gems but no items to improve penetration.

fantasma · #2 November 25th, 2011, 11:37 AM

12 vs. 17 is not safe, a bit less than 10% chance, I guess. Look at the table for the DRN to get a feeling.

Mightypeon · #3 November 25th, 2011, 11:44 AM

Anything above 20 is heartily recommended.
30 gets in the realm of safe, crap MR is one of the reasons why Gargoyles dont see that much use often.

triqui · #4 November 25th, 2011, 01:04 PM

What mighty peons said.
Most decent chasis start at 18, and even then, that's low, and you are advised to slap an Amulet on them to get to 22 at least.

Corinthian · #5 November 25th, 2011, 02:12 PM

A gargoyle is usually a fine thug despite the mr. If you know how to scrip him that is.

(Hint: Control and opposition only have range 20)

Remember to give him a silver hauberk or something to protect him from arcane bolts and you are golden.

krpeters · #6 November 25th, 2011, 04:59 PM

Well, I was planning to use him to stomp AI hordes, so scripting him to stand in the back and wait is suboptimal. If his troops are cooperative it will work, but his archers will likely stand back and fling arrows till my gargoyle charges them and gets fried.

It looks like the undead thugs really have an advantage over earth summons against astral. Yes, astral has some painful anti-undead spells, but nothing quite so bad as control/opposition/etc.

triqui · #7 November 25th, 2011, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corinthian

A gargoyle is usually a fine thug despite the mr. If you know how to scrip him that is.

(Hint: Control and opposition only have range 20)

Remember to give him a silver hauberk or something to protect him from arcane bolts and you are golden.

Paralyze has range 100. Just becouse your enemy is a vampire it does not means you have to use a wooden stake, when you can just use your standard bazooka.:-)

krpeters · #8 November 25th, 2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triqui

Paralyze has range 100. Just becouse your enemy is a vampire it does not means you have to use a wooden stake, when you can just use your standard bazooka.:-)

LOL!

OK, so let's say I pass on the Gargoyle and use a Troll King instead. With base MR of 17, plus an amulet of magic resistance pushing him to 21, how long will it take a half dozen S2 mages to fry him? Assuming AI mages with no spell focuses/etc.

I'm obsessing over the earth summons because I'm determined to get a high native protection. If you drop a Robe of Shadows on a Bane Lord he gets chewed up pretty quickly. A troll king casting Invulnrability on himself is much hardier. The only annoying thing is the 55 gem cost, that's brutal, barely compensated by the high-upkeep trolls that come with him.

triqui · #9 November 25th, 2011, 07:26 PM

There 's no way to have a SC completelly inmune to everything. However, 21 is good enough,probably can survive 100 shots or close to (barring bad luck RGN)

That said, you dont really need robe of etherealness to have a thug. Most the time, a pendant of luck and a vineshield is enough to save your banelord. The Wraith helmet gives you etherealness as well. A shield.with awe is good too. However, almost anything able to pierce or kill a Banelord/gargoyle/troll king, will have magic weapon and bypass etherealness.

krpeters · #10 November 25th, 2011, 11:41 PM

No, I gave it a try. Without the etherealness, a bane lord gets hit too often by a horde of Dai Bakemonos, routs, and dies. With the etherealness he gets chewed up and spat out due to insufficient protection (even with boots of stone) Meanwhile, the ethereal gargoyle or an ethereal ironskinned troll king pound on them relentlessly. Admittedly the extra HP of the gargoyle and the regen of the troll king help a lot.

Like you point out, anything with a magical attack is going to be a problem, but I'm trying to kill chaff mostly.