Mines & Treaties

[Vermithrax]

1) I thought both of the 'yellow' treaties (non-intercourse & non-agression) kept my mine fields active. But, the same turn that an opponent accepted a non-agression treaty proposal of mine I found his ships all over my border systems. The mine fields (at the warp points) were not swept and he could not have come by other routes. What gives?

As a follow on: at what treaty level do players gain access to each other's re-supply depots?

2) Even stanger: A few turns later the same ships were leaving by those same mined warp points. They blew up of course. And, I ended up with a war which should never have happened if the mine fields kept the ships out in the first place.

The strange thing about it is, when the turn opened, I saw his ships just sitting there. Mine fields only activate when a ship moves into the field, right? Maybe in turn based play ships always show up where they stopped Last, even if that's at the point of their demise in a mine field.

3) To clarify how mine damage works (from what I've read):

a) Either a fleet will be completely destroyed and some mines remain, all intact; or, the mine field will be completely used up with some ships remaining, all intact.

b) If damage now accumulates from component to component of a give ship, then all damage from all warheads of a given mine are deducted from a ship's total hit points, with the remainder saved from the Last component damaged (not destoyed) is added to the next random mine hit until that component is destoyed, etc, etc, until that ship is completey destoyed (by random hits if more than one ship) or all mines are expended.

If b) is true then using larger warheads isn't necessary to achieve kills on ships with large components (ie, colony module or certain armor types).

Larger size mines (not warheads) are a benefit if one wishes to pack as much explosive power into the 100 mine sector limit as possible.

Larger mines cost more and take longer to build of course, which may be a consideration if they're going to be swept anyway.

Do I have it or am I still off target?

Thanks for all the info and work on the forum to the regular contributers. This is a rare chance when I actually have the time to write something.

[Roanon]

I don't know about non-I and non-A as I haven't used them up to now. Resupply depots can be seen and used from Military Alliance upwards.

Your thoughts about mines are correct. Mines and ships hit each other and are used / damaged until either no mines or no ships are left. Compartment damage is remembered and carried over from one mine to next. Unspent mines or surviving ships remain.
Larger warheads give more explosive power to a minefield, but from a certain stage onwards no big fleet will travel without mine sweeper support, and they sweep the same number of units regardless of warhead size. So, basically, i consider large warheads as a waste of money.

[Fyron]

Non-Intercourse is the only treaty that does not protect you (and the other empire) from minefields. It means nothing, as ships still engage in combat. All it is for is for RP purposes with other humans, as it has no in-game effects (except some on happiness, same as with all treaties signed). Non-Aggression is the lowest treaty that actually means anything, and it means your empires will not engage in combat, period. It applies to minefields as well. You can not hit mines owned by an empire that you have a NA treaty with.

[Parasite]

This brings up a question I had. For the first time ever I had a race under a Subjugation treaty. It did break all other treaties (which is what I really wanted), but what else does it mean. I can not see any shipyard locations or resupply points (He may not have any?!?) Will we fight if I go into his sectors? I thought it would work like a souped up Partnership treaty, but am unsure now if I can even see all his locations. The other players have a sort of ring around the rosie partnerships going on, so I can see most of everything. I have never gotten a Subj to work in a test game so have no experience with it. What else can I do? My hope was to break the treaties so others would kill him off. I am not close enought to do it my self. Surrender is not allowed.He is too far away for me to attack directly, therefore the diplomacy option. I am demanding planets, but they keep whining that it is too expensive. Anyone have any good tricks up their sleeve.

[Fyron]

Look in the help files (the Manual folder). It tells you exactly what all the treaties do. Some resources get transfered from the subjugated empire's production to the dominant empire each turn, as well as some other things IIRC.

[Alneyan]

You shouldn't be able to use their resuply bases, as you need a Military Alliance and above to do that. Likewise, you shouldn't see their systems, since you need to be a Partner with them.

Protectorate/SubVersion are treaties below Trade Alliance (and above), so it means you have a neutral relationship with the given Empire. However, I say "should" because I have yet to try this treaty. When an Empire is desperate enough to accept such a treaty, I am often able to... erh, borrow its planets with ease.

I should also say what a Subjugation treaty is supposed to do at least. It means the targeted Empire can no longer have any other treaty, they give you an important portion of their resources, and they share every technological discovery with you. That's quite a lot, but not many Empires are likely to comply with this kind of "agreement".

[ October 01, 2003, 21:08: Message edited by: Alneyan ]