The AI... when will ìt earn its "I"?

[jowe01]

When I started playing SE4 three years ago, I found that it was a game with great concept, mechanics and customizability. However, the AI was a joke then. A couple of weeks later, Aaron made a significant improvement to AI agressiveness, which made the game playable in single player.

But since then... nothing. Or very little. In single player, your adversaries are still if not braindead, then at least seriously deranged when it comes to their military campaigns. Aaron and the modders did a very good job improving AI resource management and building programs. Mods like "AI campaign" have taken this a step further, giving the AI "unfair" advantages to further improve its strength. However, this approach does not yet solve the fundamental problem of the SE4 AI. It is like an already very muscular bully who gets some more anabolics. Beefed up like this, he comes running at you and you think "oh,my, it's over now for me", but 3 meters in front of you, he tuns around and runs somwhere else.

This is excatly the behaviour of the SE4 AI. It just does not follow through. In my current "AI campaign" game, again and again I had 30+ Jreaner ships entering my border systems which were virtually undefended. I think "oh,my, it's over now for me", but 3 squares in front of my planet, his fleet turns around and leaves through the next wormhole for somwhere else. This happens again and again. Basically, if you are not extremely unlucky with your starting position, the AI never offers a challenge.

I cannot imagine that it would be so hard to change this behaviour. Basically you would have to somehow drastically increase the priority of an ennemy target, once it has been acquired (thus only very, very urgent new threats would have the AI abandon its previous targets). The current AI behaviours largely decreases gaming pleasure in single player. I imagine, that it is probably to late to expect Aaron to again tackle the AI in SE4, but I just hope, it will be significantly improved in SE5.

Anybody any thoughts on this (same experience, different experience, infos on SE5 AI, ...)

[Gryphin]

My thoughts on AI
AI = Algorithm Intellect

The issue behind Algorithm Intellect is the amount of time and money it does take to code it. You mentioned one situation that has occurred. We have all seen bizarre behavior on behalf of the Algorithm Intellect in SEIV. How many lines of code would it take to cover that one situation? How much are you willing to pay for it? I feel the game is a very fair price for what it provides. I fear an Algorithm Intellect able to consistently challenge a human would cost 1000s of dollars.

Hope this helps.

[oleg]

It helps to play "no warp points" in AIC - AI has far fewer options where to move ships and its attack is far more concentrated. Yes, AI is still brain-dead but it is less obvious in such game setup.

[pathfinder]

In my current AIC game (no warp points) the Jaenar (sp) were ripping me a new one in the one sector where we met. The one reason I can figure why they kept coming up a bit short was lack of supplies. Once I had a system scanner up & running I noticed they were awfully short of supplies when they ended their dash for one particular planet. And of course with their mindset they going after that one planet ad nauseum....and kept coming up short.

[ December 21, 2003, 15:22: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Grandpa Kim]

Originally posted by Gryphin:
My thoughts on AI
AI = Algorithm Intellect

The issue behind Algorithm Intellect is the amount of time and money it does take to code it. You mentioned one situation that has occurred. We have all seen bizarre behavior on behalf of the Algorithm Intellect in SEIV. How many lines of code would it take to cover that one situation? How much are you willing to pay for it? I feel the game is a very fair price for what it provides. I fear an Algorithm Intellect able to consistently challenge a human would cost 1000s of dollars.

Hope this helps.

So just add this to the list of broken promises (from the computer industry in general)? Promises like "reliability", "service" and "user friendly".

No, Gryphin, if you build a game with an AI, then it should work properly. After all programmers have been building games for a couple decades now; surely they have learned something!

This rant is not aimed at Aaron who is one of the most "aware" programmers around but at the industry in general and those who make excuses for them. Sorry Gryph, just couldn't let it lie.

Kim

[Starhawk]

You know I have never had this problem that you guys talk about and I just have the Demo which has a more limited AI then the full game.

Normally when an enemy fleet comes in it does attack a colony UNLESS it detects a larger defensive fleet then it thinks it can handle OR unless a battle occurs somewhere else in their space and they think they need that fleet to defend themselves.

So maybe what you consider it just being stupid is actually the AI redeploying it's fleet to protect it's self from an enemy elsewhere that you are not aware of.

Because like I said the AI acts rather smart around me .