Diplomacy deeply flawed

[Jason2]

Last night, in my current game, I demanded Rock Colonization from the weakest race that bordered me. They responded that they would give the gift in the interest of peace but never did. I tried this five times and always received a positive response but never got the tech

I also asked several allies to declare war - they said they would and never did. In fact the treaty grid showed them in a trade alliance with the race they said they would go to war with!

Have these bugs been mentioned? The diplomacy model looks like it has depth - but not if it is only cosmetic without actually ever changing anything.

Jason2

[Atrocities]

Perhaps they had not researched it yet. I tried that with a Ice Hydrodgen (sp) breathing race, and the same thing happened to me. I finally set that AI to human, and checked. They had not researched Rock. Go figure. :a

[WhiteHojo]

Just a thought - but did you reply to their offer of the gift? I did the same thing and I believe I didn't get the gift of the planet they said they would give until I replied that I would accept the gift.

[Talenn]

This is something I mentioned a while back but no one else seemed to notice. If you simply IGNORE a message, nothing happens. Request for treaties, demands from the AI etc seem to all be safely ignored without penalty.

Also, there seems to be NO enforcement or penalty for agreeing to something and then not following through. For example, race 'x' demands that you break your treaty with race 'y'. Well, first of all, if you ignore the request entirely, nothing happens. But even worse, if you agree, you seem to get the BENEFIT for agreeing, but even if you DONT BREAK THE TREATY, nothing happens. A few turns later they simply ask you again and are still 'Brotherly' or whatever they were..no worse for wear.

To me, this is a MAJOR stumbling block for the diplomacy model. There need to be still diplomatic penalties for reneging on agreements and for continually rebuffing allies.

Another thing I think would help would be a max level in 'friendliness' that can occur without at least a Trade Agreement. Currently, a race will tend to always like you by a set amount (3 points in the default) each turn until they are 'Brotherly'. So, in essence, from the time First Contact is made there is a set timetable until the other race 'falls in love' with you. As long as nothing else happens, they will eventually be 'Brotherly' and THAT is major reason it seems to be treaty-happy.

IMO, the relationship should NOT improve above 'Moderate' unless a Trade Agreement+ treaty has been signed. In other words, you should have to WORK to get the agreement and the attendant increase in diplomatic standing. As it is now, all you have to do is wait a few turns after First Contact without attacking them....not too terribly tough IMO.

Diplomacy and AI 'feel' is still one of the two weakest points in the game (along with the AI's ability) IMO. A few tweaks here and there could go a long way to changing that. Hopefully as soon as the AI is a bit better up to snuff, we will see items like Diplomacy (which should be a critical item) be worked on before addition of extra features.

Thanx,
Talenn

[thurm]

First, you have to accept the gift to receive it from the other races. I like it that way, after all, doesn't everyone want a "thank you" when you give a gift. So, I guess the aliens feel that if we're not thankful, then they'll take back their gift.

Secondly, thanks Talenn for your mod. Its great and a lot more fun now. The economic model is actually difficult but much more interesting to manage. Before, it was ust too easy to have millions and millions of resources. Now I have trouble breaking a 100K. I also like the new names for things, much better than level 1, II, III, etc.

About the diplomacy, now with Talenn's mod, just keeping up with the other races in the first hundred turns demands that I now use the diplomacy feature, not only to make sure that I'm not fighting too many races at once, and consequently being left behind while the peaceful empires jump ahead, but also to keep up with the other races research advances that are leaving me behind.

Anyway, thanks for your effort, and if you had a game like the one I'm playing right now, diplomacy definitely does not take a back seat.

One Last thing, about ignoring other races. I have had it happen to me that if I ignored a race's request for me to end a treaty with another race, they will be at war with me within the year, with no ther provocation. It seemed right to me. I ignored them and I had to pay the price. Now, I try to ignore a request like that for a short while so that I can try to demand as many gifts as possible from the other race. That will usually get them to declare war on you eventually, and thus getting you out of the mess.

[Richard]

Talenn,

Actually your comments about ignoring a diplomatic request are VERY valid. This is something I would like to see fixed as well and I believe it will be in time.

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Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com