Wanted: Cheating AI

[Willgamer]

A search didn't reveal a direct hit on this, so in the interest of hearing a good discussion:

I want an AI that CHEATS!

Please try to consider the following points even as you launch your broadsides.....

* the term cheat is rather broad; is it:
1. giving the computer a headstart in the
pregame options.
2. giving 1 player (randomly, but usually
not the human) a sweet spot start.
3. looking (ala Shogun) at the human
player's move and reacting accordingly.
4. revealing via Reports screens much data
that is useless to humans, but great for
computers.
5. computer players ganging up on the
human player.
6. computer players access to human player
data that's blatantly obvious.
7. computer player access to human player
data that isn't obvious (ie. if you
can't discover cheating, is it?)
8. add your own ideas here.....

* is enjoying a game derived from the actual gameplay, your perception of how that gameplay was produced or both??????

After many years of strategy gaming, I now prefer #7. As long as I can't readily detect cheating, I'll take the best possible gameplay. Yes I know the bright bulbs out there will eventually tell me how the computer did it, but until then, I paid for a ticket, so just entertain me!

Anyone else for a little less honest AI?

[Danny]

What I'd like is to make a super empire with everything at max, and all the racial bonus.

------------------
I AM Canadian.

[Daynarr]

I have played Red Alert II recently and was really PO by AI there. Man, that AI cheats big time, covering almost all points you mentioned there, and more.
IMO cheating AI as a standard AI in the game is just a product of laziness of programmers.
However, cheating AI as a option can be a good addition to the game like SE4 because it will provide more challenge to the more advanced players (like playing on impossible level in MOO2). Maybe adding some new options for cheating (in SE3 you could select how many planets and what tech level AI has in the start) would be welcome addition to the game and make it more interesting and longer Lasting.

[Instar]

It is possible to give the AI bonuses, or have it gang up. Look for these options in the game setup. I know for certain you can give the AI bonuses and make it AI vs Humans. I think there might be another couple there.
A cheating AI just covers up poor AI. So what if it cheats? In CCRA I knew exactly how the AI cheated and I could easily beat it.

[Courageous]

"IMO cheating AI as a standard AI in the game is just a product of laziness of programmers."
---
It's much easier to write an AI when that AI has access to perfect information, but when it does not have such access, it is FAR more difficult, and while, I suppose, you might be able to, with a gread deal of work, design an AI which is "artificially not stupid" for the purposes of a GAME, to be able to do this kind of stuff reliably even with real world military computers is actually quite difficult and quite beyond the state of computing hardware today.

One of the reasons that this is the case is that when human beings don't have access to information, they use INTUITION, which is a way of saying that they have an intricate web of associations to a VAST library of past experiences of like-circumstances.

Meanwhile, your friend the AI opponent is most decidedly NOT a practiced player of MOO, CIV, TOAW, et al. This poor AI is looking at the problem the first time; worse, the game designer, when he designs the thing, often has no idea what some of the sneakier strategies might be.

What I'm trying to say here is that sweeping this all under the rug of "lazy programmers" can only be spoken by someone with no knowledge of AI programming at all.

C//

[Daynarr]

Gee Courageous, is it me, or you usually flame people like that. If you read my post more carefully you will notice that these 'lazy programmers' are not in MM since their STANDARD AI does not cheat. Also MM have SE3 AI that does not cheat and was quite formidable opponent, so in short - it can be done.
The game in question is RA2, which is 4th game in the series and should have advanced no-cheating AI (these guys had lots of time and HUGE feedback from fans to do it right).
But no, just and improved cheating AI that knows all the info in game, not to mention that they ALWAYS gang up on human player (would someone please explain to me what is the point in building gap generators in single-player game if the AI knows your location and strength anyway). That AI does display some advanced tactics on higher levels, but why cheating then. So many games in that genre had no cheating AI that was excellent opponent (Total Annihilation, Age of Empires 1 and 2 etc.). They made a breakthrough with Dune2 and C&C, but every game onward was just a perfect example of get-more-money-with-almost-the-same-thing attitude.
If decent AI can be done, and they don't do it, what are they?
BTW, I am well aware what pressure is done on developers to get their products done in designated time frame and I don't hold them to be 'lazy'. But one would expect them, in that case, to support their product with patches so they will fix and improve their product. Take MM as an example again.
Oh yeah, and leave my programming skills alone.