Spotting Question

[cdwalkley]

A bit late in the day this, but it has been bugging me so much I can't wait till the game comes out to see if it has been changed.....

Consider 4 hexes in a line: A;B;C;D

Hex A is clear and has a US squad in it
Hex B is clear
Hex C is light jungle
Hex D Is clear with a stationary (in all examples below) VC squad in it

The US squad wants to spot the VC. According to the rules, because the VC are in a clear hex they are automatically spotted, even though stationary.

If they were stationary in hex C, the US squad would need to make a roll.

Also, if Hex B was light jungle as well, the US squad would also suffer a penalty if trying to spot the VC in hex C. BUT the VC are still spotted automatically in the clear hex D.

So the way I am reading the rules, the US squad can see through up to two hexes of jungle with no need to spot the stationary VC (and no penalty at all), just becasue they are in a clear hex. But if the VC were to be in the jungle itself, they suddenly become hard to spot, and in this case, any intervening jungle makes it EVEN HARDER to see them.

I hope I am being clear enough. Perhaps I am missing something in the rules... It just seems odd that the Degrading Terrain has such varying effects.

[Mark H. Walker]

Hi,

Thanks for playing the demo. Actually degrading terrain effects are always the same. I'm not sure that Isee your point. If a unit is spotted, it is spotted, and there is no need for a spotting roll, hence DT doesn't apply. Now, if you were going to shoot at that same unit, the DT would affect the fire.

If you are trying to see a unit through more than two hexes of degrading terrain, the LOS is blocked.

Best,
Mark

[cdwalkley]

Thanks for the reply, Mark.

I think it is just a case of having looked at things from a slightly different angle.

I was just uncertain how a stationary unit in the open would be spotted automatically when there is intervening DT, while a stationary unit in DT with nothing between it and the spotter requires a roll. The same amount of DT is present in each case (as far as I can see).

In 'real life': I'd have problems spotting a group of guys through several meters of jungle regardless of whether they were in it or behind it.

Sorry to be a troublemaker!

Thanks
Chris

PS Have you found a UK stockist?

[Bamse]

Originally posted by cdwalkley:

I was just uncertain how a stationary unit in the open would be spotted automatically when there is intervening DT, while a stationary unit in DT with nothing between it and the spotter requires a roll. The same amount of DT is present in each case (as far as I can see).

It makes sense to me, actually. If a unit is actually in degrading terrain they can lie in the grass or bushes or whatever. If they're behind it, they're basically lying on the open ground and are visible through the (many) gaps in the DT. Near where I live I've found spots in the park which are my reference points for degrading/blocking woods terrain (I've also paced out a hex, for the fun of it) and I've come to think the system is right, as is.

[cdwalkley]

Thanks, Bamse! You seem to be someone who does their homework!

I see your point. Soldiers in the hex are properly utilising the cover there to (try and) remain hidden. At the time it didn't sit right with my opponent and me, but what you say seems to make sense.

Now I can sleep well again at night

[Bamse]

Originally posted by cdwalkley:
You seem to be someone who does their homework!

It's compulsive. Started when I used to play a lot of Combat Mission. Now I can't take a walk without analyzing the 'lay o' the land', figuring out where to hide the bazookas, best place for a minefield, guesstimating ranges and so on etc etc. When I got into LnL the first thing I did was mark out a hex with sticks in the grass at the park. Actually it worries me