Anyone played the Ulm Black Forest in MP ?

[IKerensky]

Because after several testbed in SP i am really afraid of the bare power of the vampire count factory...

Anyone with an experience in MP to tell ?

( test bed by rather inexperienced newby player : first count at T5, equipped by T7 ( and prophetised ), second T9, third T 11, fourth... donc care so much because 3 of them are already a mere nightmare and largely taking back the slow start ( i.e. no territorial expansion until T7... )

Turn/Province: 1-6/1; 7/2; 8/3; 9/4; 10/6; 11/8; 12/11; 13/14 ....

And that only using CV and not trying to develop and use standard army with the gold and ressource stockpile I start having.... ))

That the reason why I am asking for realplay tale because I just cant see a way to stop the 1 man army juggernaut...

[aldin]

I can tell you my current MP game forbade it. Has anyone figured out good counters to BF Ulm yet?

~Aldin

[Coffeedragon]

Originally posted by aldin:
I can tell you my current MP game forbade it. Has anyone figured out good counters to BF Ulm yet?

~Aldin

Can the Priest line (esp Marignon) not handle them?

[PhilD]

Originally posted by IKerensky:

Turn/Province: 1-6/1; 7/2; 8/3; 9/4; 10/6; 11/8; 12/11; 13/14 ....

And that only using CV and not trying to develop and use standard army with the gold and ressource stockpile I start having.... ))

That the reason why I am asking for realplay tale because I just cant see a way to stop the 1 man army juggernaut...

OK, I must have missed a part here. What's so strong about the Vampire Count? I gave BF Ulm a try, and sure, they're cool enough, but my Vamps were very far from taking Provinces all by themselves. Did you give them very specific equipment?

IMO Vampire Counts are out of whack as far as 'balance' is concerned.

Vampire Counts can take provinces on their own as long as you take the right ones Try using your initial gem income in Black Forest to it's full effect. That would be Death, Nature, and Astral.

You can have a Count taking provinces very easily with a Barkskin Amulet, Pendant of Luck, and Horror Helmet.

It's a logistical nightmare very, very early with Vampire Counts in the game (on a semi-small map, turn 8-10, you will be fighting them with your PD unless your opponent has a reason not to)

Ways to stop it are in having a high dominion (so the VC's MR drops so low they can be banished), playing Marignon and using a few Paladins (for Holy Pyre on hit) or fielding a large enough army or good enough pretender to break past the luck/ethereal/life drain they have early.

On top of that BF has an incredible but limited selection of troops (Rangers and Ghouls) and access to stealthy low cost blood hunters, which makes them really start to churn out the Vampires and Lesser Horrors.

With the fix of the Lesser Horror spell, it makes it much easier to take provinces with blood.

It may not be 'overpowered' per say. But you have to be prepared and it can catch you off guard/make your life hell/destroy your economy unless you can contain the VC's quickly. Which is relatively hard considering that, in the early game, you won't have access to the # of Gems, levels of magic, to strike at a VC before it traipses off and away from you. Plus the VC's get really quite nasty when the BF player hits Const 4.

[ January 28, 2004, 19:40: Message edited by: Zen ]

[ywl]

Originally posted by IKerensky:
Because after several testbed in SP i am really afraid of the bare power of the vampire count factory...

Anyone with an experience in MP to tell ?

( test bed by rather inexperienced newby player : first count at T5, equipped by T7 ( and prophetised ), second T9, third T 11, fourth... donc care so much because 3 of them are already a mere nightmare and largely taking back the slow start ( i.e. no territorial expansion until T7... )

Turn/Province: 1-6/1; 7/2; 8/3; 9/4; 10/6; 11/8; 12/11; 13/14 ....

And that only using CV and not trying to develop and use standard army with the gold and ressource stockpile I start having.... ))

That the reason why I am asking for realplay tale because I just cant see a way to stop the 1 man army juggernaut...

The speed of expansion up to turn 13 is not very impressive. I can easily do better with most nations.

Did you use a Blood Fortune boosted with Death as a Pretender? Or a Vampire Queen? Both require some investment of nation points. The former might be immobile in future patch, forcing you blood-hunt in the capital.

Just like PhilD, I don't find Vampire Counts overwhelming. Useful and immortal but because of their low hitpoint, they seem to be weak comparing to most supercombatants. How did you equip them? I can think of way to make them powerful enough but they're beyond the reach of early stage BF magic.

VC can be dealt with in many ways. Other than banishment, they're also very vulnerable to "Dust to Dust" (cheap level 1 spell). Easier yet, just pin them down with a bunch of archers or longbows.

BF Ulm is thematically cool and very stealthy. But they're also very limited in magic choice. Their principle mages have only 2 astral, no random pick. Fortune Teller has only 1 astral and 1 random - talk about Magic-Duel bait.

There are tricks to make BF Ulm a formidable nations but it doesn't seem to be overpowered to me.