Father Illearth/Lord of Banefire - why?

Zurai · #1 February 14th, 2004, 02:12 AM

Having just completed a very long game with Caelum on the Kingdom of Karan map (very nice map by the way Targa!) in which I summoned all of the elemental royalty, I have to wonder what the point of these two is. Neither one has a special ability (other than Anthrax's slightly improved fire shield), they have decent magic but nothing exceptional, and they require paths that don't combo that well.

Is there some little facet that I'm missing here? I'm NOT saying they're useless, just that I personally can't see why you would summon either one specifically instead of expending a little more effort to get the regular Earth or Fire Kings, who can summon friends every turn.

geo981010 · #2 February 14th, 2004, 02:58 AM

Both of them can be combat fiends though - much better than the uncorrupted King Versions in a pure combat role.

to make the FI shine you need two spells- Invulnerability, and Blood vengeance. He will have 30 Invulnerability, and every time someone attacks him they have to pass an MR check or they hurt themselves instead (with an MR of 11). Making him ethereal and lucky via items is a good choice too, and of course elemental protection and maybe Life contract + charcoal shield. To keep a blood slave supply, have him move with a bunch of hidden scouts who are carrying slaves (hidden scouts should go with all armies to soak up global attacks like Seeking arrow and such, too ).

The Banefire shield along with a scripted Fire shield gives the Banefire Lord two chances to hurt everyone that attacks, and IIRC there is no immunity to the Banefire shield (there is fire immunity of course). He will need more artifacts to go solo killing than the FI (regen being a big one, and he needs some armor), but he can get there and needs a lot less magic spell research to get to optimal.

Nagot Gick Fel · #3 February 13th, 2004, 03:15 PM

Still addicted to FIs, George?

BTW, I don't agree with Zurai's view that earth and blood don't combo well. Blood Stones are excellent production/booster items. When playing Ulm I often empower a smith in blood just so he can forge some for all my battlesmiths. And Demon Knights are OK troops.

geo981010 · #4 February 13th, 2004, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
Still addicted to FIs, George?

With the amount of snow we've gotten this winter, it's pretty much my only chance to remind me what the ground looks like!

Zurai · #5 February 13th, 2004, 04:40 PM

Yeah, my mistake - I forgot about Demon Knights, which are good, and I wasn't thinking of items at all due to my newbieness. Still, 3B4E is pretty difficult to come by outside of a pretender or a lot of empowering. I'd just like to see something "special" to them like the other Elemental Royalty have. Illearth has nothing and Anthrax only has the Banefire shield, which isn't really that impressive. IIRC he has to be *hit* for the shield to fire off, which means he's taking damage which isn't something you want to happen outside of berserkers.

Hmm. Berserking Lord of Banefire. That might be interesting....

Endoperez · #6 February 13th, 2004, 08:26 PM

Remember that you don't need BBBBEEE, only EE with Earth boots (EE mage can forge) and that there are many blood-enchancing items in there... Brazen Vessel and Blood thorn come to mind (20 slaves each. There is more expensive Armor of the souls (40 slaves) that also raises the blood mage's power. With those items, you only need EEBB on a mage for summon, and a mage with BBB to forge those empowering items. Also, when you remember that Blood and Earth can forge the before-mentioned Blood Stone, one earth is enough. So in fact, you need a mage with two blood and one earth, plus a blood mage. Or then any mage with EB and some 30 slaves for empowering.

Sure, that is lots of work, but only 110 slaves, and any that are needed to summon your Father Illearth. As you will propably want to give him a shield, he can use Blood Thorn as a one-handed life-draining weapon.

Anthrax is much harder, but can be done. Besides, have you seen that DF skull that boosts fire magic by one? It's awesome!

Hupsistakeikkaa, this became quite a long post...

In short: in fact it is not that hard to take EB -mage to EEEBBBB needed to summon Father Illearth, if you already have a blood mage.