Some questions on assassination

[Chris Byler]

If a commander is injured in an assassination attempt and there is a battle the same turn, is he still injured when the battle starts?

If a commander is fatigued in an assassination attempt, does he stay fatigued? (Assassinating mages could thus be useful even if you fail...)

So far it seems to me that assassins are expensive and not very useful, they often fail against any commander that is really worth the effort (and even some that aren't). If you have a sufficiently strong assassin (e.g. Chuzrael) you can take indies by assassinating all their commanders, but that's very slow and you can't count on getting Chuzrael. Ordinary assassins will probably die before they get 4-5 commanders - especially if one is a knight. Also, it doesn't work well on other nations because they move around, and you can't assassinate the province defense.

Maybe it would help if assassins could start much closer to their targets and always move first during the assassination attempts. That way they don't get lanced before they can swing (one of the main reasons Chuzrael is so good is that he can always get the first swing by flying; also he's very skilled, which doesn't hurt.)

[Taqwus]

Yes and no respectively -- fatigue always starts at 0, but hp damage isn't healed between assassinations and regular battles, IIRC.
Starting closer and with first swing would make sense. I'd also suggest that at a minimum the assassination should be an 'anonymous' battle at least if it succeeds, and possibly an unknown battle (result only) from the loser's POV.

[Cohen]

I agree with you saying Assassins should start near the victim and have the first strike.

However you can Improve them ...

For example with Abysya, don't research the first turn, and forge a fire sword. This will make the assassin far more better.
Later you can add more magical items.

Cuthzrael is powerful, but equip him to now waste him for unlucky.

Another way to enhance them is to prophetize. But you can have only a lone prophet ... (Cuthzrael prophet very nice).

[Mardagg]

The first 2 questions I can only guess:

Injuries remain for the same round,I would assume there the same rule as with several battles in one province(for example nation A attacks independents and in same round nation B attacks nation A in this province).

Fatigue is canceled,likewise the rule,when several battles occur.

In general I find Assasins quite useful.
I use them a lot for early expansion,if and only if I play Machaka or Abysia.
In case of Machaka,the Assasins are expensive and capital only,but come already well equipped.
They can beat even Knight commanders about 75% of the time.
You can make one your prophet,especially if you have a 9er blessing,and you get an early SC,who will beat every commander in provinces with your dominion.
I use scouts or neutral commanders to scout provinces about number and quality of commander and write them down.
Knight provinces with lots of knight commanders or provinces where indie commanders have bodyguards I either try to take with an army then or as soon as I can give some items to the assassins.If its a very good/important province,I often take the risk with Machaka Assasins.
Even if they die,the knight commander mostly will be killed,too,because of the bane blades.

In case of Abysia,I never equip my Assasins in early game.Thus I never try to assasinate difficult commanders.
Normal commanders are quite easy though.
I specialise on provinces with only 3 indie commanders,preferable one of them a priest,and then send 2 slayers there(if one dies I still have another).Since slayers are not that expensive and can be build in all your castles,you can quite early capture quite a lot of indie provinces this way,if its a big map.

Very important for Machaka and Abysia is,that you place your Assasins such,that they will do the first strike.
This is just a matter of experience,since most independent commanders start always at the same position during an assasination attempt.
Its important here,what kind of commander you will face and the movement points your Assasin has.

Later on assasins become less useful,but there are still worthy scouts and can take down small defended provinces of the enemy.
In case of Machaka or Chuzrael,you can use them for a lot more,though,if right equipped.

[tinkthank]

I personally tend to disagree.
I almost never use assassins early in the game (except for the freebie which comes with Abysia). But with items, I have eliminated even very powerful (albeit: non-SC) pretenders in their home province.
Once equiped with decent items, I find them almost unstoppable.
For nations with easy fire access (this includes Marignon), I find a wand of Incineration quite nice. A little Lucky Coin is a cheap help too. But my favorite winner hands down without blinking is a Lifelong Contract on a Slayer. That's all he needs to take down knights every time. Stick him in the back and set to "cast". It is so easy I want to cry "nerf". With a wand of incineration and a lucky coin, the occasional Horror attack is also no problem if a lesser horror and beatable if a horror. And we havent even put on a Shadow Robe, etc. etc. etc....
In other words, if assassins became even more power-upped, I would find them far too easy to abuse. I find them overpowered as is, even though they stink when naked (not counting those Spider Guys, which I rarely get because of their capital-onlyness and their cost -- but even then they are hardly worth it early game without items).
I would not want them to have the first strike and start nearer.

[Mardagg]

well ist all a matter of personal preferences and playing style.
With Machaka I do equip my Assasins early on.
I will have only quite a few of them,because I of course prefer builing mages in capital,and thus dont want to lose them.
But its a special case here,since the Assassin can also command some troops and has several uses therefore.
The advantage is,that the bane spider needs only very few items to become invincible against indies,as they start with good armor for example.

Playing Abysia on the other hand ,I go for numbers.
I use my precious Fire Gems for alchemy,to produce more Slayers,instead of IMO wasting gems for several Items.
The slayer chassis is not that bad,but it lacks several more items ,mainly Protection.
Only with a fire sword,you will still lose the slayer sometimes.
If I can get up a second castle quite early,I do even in MP games produce there slayers every turn in the early game,if I go for assassin strategy.

Late Game,assasins are too weak against magic and bodyguards.
I only fully equip really good ones then,e.g. If I have an assasin with heroic ability.
Its just too expensive,and during late game I have much better SC`s to give items.

Lifelong protection is another case.
I rarely use them ,matter of taste.
I use my blood slaves for other things.
If you encounter a mage ,your assasin will most likely die anyways in the first turn .

[ April 26, 2004, 15:20: Message edited by: Mardagg ]