C'tis strategy

[Vorkosigan]

I've been experimenting with C'tis (base theme). After a number of false starts the lizards started to make sense to me. Here's the strategy I'm using. I'm going to be starting a MP game with a friend tonight, so comments are welcome.

C'TIS (base theme)

Pretender: Ghost King
Magic: 2F, 3A, 2W, 3E, 3S, 5D, 2N
Scales: 3 Order, 3 Sloth, 1 Heat, 2 Misfortune, 3 Magic
Dominion: 6
Castle: Watchtower
Pts left: 0

Research:
- Alt 3 (mistform, mirror image, ironskin, personal luck, quickness)
- Conj 1 (vinemen)
- Constr 2 (ivy crown, dwarven hammer)
- Constr 4 (winged shoes, wraithsword, skull staff, skull mentor, bag of wine, staff of storms, wallshaker, thistle mace)
- Enchant 3 (raise skeletons)
- Conj 2 (dark knowledge)
- Conj 3(vine ogres)
- Conj 7 (air queens in SP only)
- Conj 8 (well of misery)
- Conj 9 (ghost riders, tartarian gate)
- Constr 6 (skullface, moonvine bracelet, etc)
- Thaum 4 (gift of reason)

GK is used for early expansion and site searching, stopping at Constr 4 to build a DH and SoS. Several Shamans with ivy crowns are set to summon vinemen, and any Sauromancer with 2N gets a thistle mace + ivy crown and set to summon vine ogres.

Armies consist of Elite Warriors, Vinemen and Vine Ogres, backed by a Lizard King (with SoS) casting fanaticism and Sauromancers (with Skull Staff) casting Raise Skeletons.

At Conj 8, GK casts Well of Misery. At Conj 9, Sauromancers with 3D get Skull Staves for casting Ghost Riders. At Constr 6, GK builds a moonvine bracelet for a 2N Sauromancer, then gets a Skull Staff + Skullface and begins summoning Titans.

A question about Ghost Riders: say an enemy controls provinces A and B. The only retreat from B is to A. If I cast Ghost Riders on both A & B, is the army in B destroyed when it tries to retreat?

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Vorkosigan said:
I've been experimenting with C'tis (base theme). After a number of false starts the lizards started to make sense to me. Here's the strategy I'm using. I'm going to be starting a MP game with a friend tonight, so comments are welcome.

No Behemoths? They're one of the first things I research when I play C'tis, and I notice your research plan stops at Enchantment 3. Banefire Archers are ultracool too, especially with Darkness up.

A question about Ghost Riders: say an enemy controls provinces A and B. The only retreat from B is to A. If I cast Ghost Riders on both A & B, is the army in B destroyed when it tries to retreat?

Yes.

[Vorkosigan]

Nagot Gick Fel said:
No Behemoths? They're one of the first things I research when I play C'tis, and I notice your research plan stops at Enchantment 3. Banefire Archers are ultracool too, especially with Darkness up.

Hmm...you're right, behemoths should be targeted quickly. I wanted to get Ghost Riders asap so I tried to select the least amount of research outside of conjuration. I think Banefire archers are Enchantment 6, which would delay my push to Conj 9. Of course, on the way I could cast GoH, assuming I tweaked my GK to Nature 4.

[Soapyfrog]

I would shoot for Const 6 before heading up to Conj 9. Also as pointed out there are some fantastic summons at Echantment 5 and 6... e.g. longdead archers, pale riders, and behemoths.

[Yvelina]

> Pretender: Ghost King
> Magic: 2F, 3A, 2W, 3E, 3S, 5D, 2N

I think that 3S is asking for trouble. There are indy mages that will happily duel you, and they will have a pretty good chance of succeeding. And of course, once you start fighting players, you will have to keep your pretender well hidden. I'd suggest you lose the nature (you will get it from your sauromancers) and even the fire (you will get a fire random and access to banefire archers) and beef up the air and astral paths.

I would also not bother with Alt3. Alt2 is good enough for early expansion, especially since you do not have to worry too much about afflictions.

I would use Astral Probing as much as Dark Knowledge... but first and foremost, I would play Miasma rather than Standard. Recently I had a chance to observe Miasma in the hand of people who knew what they were doing, and I was impressed.

[Vorkosigan]

Interesting comments. I really like mistform and ironskin but I suppose he would do ok with Quickness, Stoneskin, Personal Luck and Mirror Image.

Miasma looked impressive in my test games. I wouldn't get quite the same ability to cast Ghost Riders though. How does this sound:

C'TIS (miasma theme)

Pretender: Ghost King
Magic: 4A, 1W, 2E, 5S, 4D
Scales: 3 Order, 3 Sloth, 2 Heat, 2 Misfortune, 1 Magic
Dominion: 9
Castle: Watchtower
Pts left: 5

Is that Last point of Dominion essential for Miasma? I assume research should target the nature and death summonings.

[Schmoe]

Yvelina said:
... but first and foremost, I would play Miasma rather than Standard. Recently I had a chance to observe Miasma in the hand of people who knew what they were doing, and I was impressed.

You'll have to tell me who those people were so I can get some pointers. After the thorough spanking you laid on me at the end of our game, it surely wasn't me

[The Panther]

Hey! Thanks, tuidjy, for your helpful post above. Here I am on Turn 95 (I just checked this) and I gleamed some useful things from your post that I can still even use in my game!

As for the dominion thing, I surely expected my neighbors to come crashing down on me early with my 10 starting dominion. But they did not, though maybe this was partially due to a bit of luck.

One of my neighbors was a total rookie and he went AI early and quite unexpectedly. Another neighbor started a war in the other direction, eliminating Ermor early (as can be typical). Caelum expanded quickly and built lots of temples, thus keeping my 10 dominion away from him, and we had an armstice for a long time.

My other near neighbor was Norfleet (yes, the game started THAT long ago) who went AI on about turn 10 or so after he got caught cheating. Cohen quickly made a beeline for Norfleet's former empire and eliminated him at once. But, by that time, I had a nice solid empire in the middle of Karan, and used my incredible income bonus from my massive dominion to make a lot of mages of all types and sizes and fortify every single province with Hill Fortresses, labs, and temples.

I suppose that this will not always work out so well as it did for me, though, so taking a lower dominion might be prudent. But on a small map like Karan, it can be problematic building your dominion up from 6 to 10 in order to reap the full Miasma income bonus.

[Cainehill]

Nagot Gick Fel said:

Vorkosigan said:

Yes.

I believe it all depends on whether or not the Ghost Riders defeat the forces in province A. If they fail, the province remains as a safe haven for the retreating forces in B.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Cainehill said:
I believe it all depends on whether or not the Ghost Riders defeat the forces in province A. If they fail, the province remains as a safe haven for the retreating forces in B.

True.