On the cusp...

[kimmitt]

I put this in the patch discussion, but I figured it merited a note of its own:

Okay, I'm interested in the game, but I'm going to wait until the patch hits, to see if I buy it. The deal-breakers for me:

1) Long times for map generation and turn processing.
If you can't come up with a random map generation algorithm which is both fast and good, generate a couple hundred or so templates using your slow map generation algorithm and bundle them with the software or something. I don't want to have to choose among the maps, as that takes away the fun, but it's boring to wait for the map to generate.

The same thing applies to the turn processing. I don't know if you're drawing every battle before it starts or if the AI is hopelessly bloated, but I'm running a machine which is can guide a rocket to the moon. More to the point, I'm running a machine which is more than capable of guiding fifty rockets to the moon simultaneously. Graphics are one thing, but work with me here. Figure out where the bottlenecks are and get some damn optimization done.

Not deal-breakers, but likely to influence my decision as to whether to purchase the game and/or recommend it to friends:

1) Pretender generation. This should all be one screen, simple as that.

2) The map. I'm sorry, but the icons and such are still ugly. When it was ugly and minimalist, as in Pretenders II, that was cool -- it was what it was. But this intermediate level of ugly is atrocious. At absolute minimum, make the part of the map that flashes when I click on a province less enormous, and get rid of that absurd arrow extension. I don't need to see a sizable chunk of my screen flashing every time I click an area, and I don't need the game pretending that it's dynamic in an area where it isn't. Plus the arrow is ugly.

3) Menus in general -- get a dang GUI expert to go through and clean house, making all of the backgrounds get along with all of the sprites for the various units, et cetera. This isn't an enormous task, and it would vastly improve playability.

4) Various report options. Let me know how many x's I've killed or gotten killed. That's called flava, and it makes games fun. Let me know how many people died in a siege or assault. If a commander was killed in a battle, let me know which one. Those suckers are expensive. If critters which cost more than 100 GP per were killed in a battle, let me know. Don't make me watch every battle to see if it was my Sorceror or my Water Mage who ate it, because I can't remember who all I committed. When I whack a Pretender, throw up a summary screen of the Pretender's accomplishments (units created, etc.) and a couple of paragraphs on how I threw my enemy down before me. If you're feeling clever, tune the paragraphs to what kind of unit killed it -- if a militiaman finished the job, emphasize ignomy. If it took Joe Stoic, Holder of the Sacred Flame of Badassery, emphasize the heroics. But something. Seriously.

The game still has its overall amateur feel, which isn't a terrible thing; the idea that it is the creation of people who love gaming to give to other people who love gaming is fine. I feel the love. But you gotta take away the un-fun parts, or I can't get at the delicious nougatty center underneath.

Finally, now that Dominions 3 is out, you should totally start selling Dominions 2 for some ridiculously low price on download. Think of it as the first hit being free.

[Arralen]

Go, shut up, play Half-life.

Enough said.

[coobe]

Illwinter is not Blizzard, Valve or EA. And thats very good!

I agree with Arralen

[WraithLord]

Agree with Arralen and Coobe.

You have enough high production value games out there.

Dominions is a unique game with tons of content and flavor and frankly, I like it just that way.

[Ballbarian]

1) Long times for map generation and turn processing.

There are already existing random maps being provided by Gandalf, and alternative random map generators exist and another is in develpmont.

As for the turn generation, Dominions is a game with tremendous depth and with that depth comes complexity. I am actually impressed that Johan has managed to keep the turn processing as streamlined as he has.

1) Pretender generation. This should all be one screen, simple as that.

Eh. I could care less one way or the other on this one. Might be nice, but I don't mind it as it is now.

2) The map. I'm sorry, but the icons and such are still ugly. When it was ugly and minimalist, as in Pretenders II, that was cool -- it was what it was. But this intermediate level of ugly is atrocious.

Huh?

I don't need to see a sizable chunk of my screen flashing every time I click an area

Sounds to me like you are zoomed all the way in. (Either that or you are playing on a cell phone screen.) You can zoom out via page up/down keys or by the mouse wheel.

3) Menus in general -- get a dang GUI expert to go through and clean house, making all of the backgrounds get along with all of the sprites for the various units, et cetera. This isn't an enormous task, and it would vastly improve playability.

The developers have included the ability to mod the gui backgrounds to your own tastes and several users have already done so and made them available here on the forums.

4) Various report options. Let me know how many x's I've killed or gotten killed. That's called flava, and it makes games fun. Let me know how many people died in a siege or assault. If a commander was killed in a battle, let me know which one. Those suckers are expensive. If critters which cost more than 100 GP per were killed in a battle, let me know. Don't make me watch every battle to see if it was my Sorceror or my Water Mage who ate it, because I can't remember who all I committed. When I whack a Pretender, throw up a summary screen of the Pretender's accomplishments (units created, etc.) and a couple of paragraphs on how I threw my enemy down before me. If you're feeling clever, tune the paragraphs to what kind of unit killed it -- if a militiaman finished the job, emphasize ignomy. If it took Joe Stoic, Holder of the Sacred Flame of Badassery, emphasize the heroics. But something. Seriously.

The game is already loaded with "flava"
Overall I am satisfied with the reports that I get, but I will never complain if I get more verbose reports as long as they don't become spam. If I have an important commander in a battle then I watch it unless it is a sure win scenario. But if the report shows that a commander died then I watch the battle replay closely to see what the heck I did wrong.

The game still has its overall amateur feel, which isn't a terrible thing; the idea that it is the creation of people who love gaming to give to other people who love gaming is fine. I feel the love. But you gotta take away the un-fun parts, or I can't get at the delicious nougatty center underneath.

I hope you can get past the things that are un-fun to you, because it is delicious.

Finally, now that Dominions 3 is out, you should totally start selling Dominions 2 for some ridiculously low price on download. Think of it as the first hit being free.

This has been discussed in other threads, thus no comment.

When I first read your post, my first impression was to post a reply similar to Arralen's. I think it was something about the tone or choice of words that came across as "I won't buy this game because it does not have enough wizbangs ."

[MythicalMino]

Can someone explain to me why the animated arrows are such a problem? I must be missing something, because they do not really bother me at all.....

[Ballbarian]

I like them. Makes it much easier on a large map with many commanders on the move to see what is going on. Try to take away my arrows and you will draw back a nub.

[Endoperez]

Can someone explain me why this post was met with such hostility? All of these changes, AFAIK, are something that we won't have, but what I at least would LIKE TO. I don't think these changes are small enough for a patch, that's true. Starting a new thread for the suggestions was perhaps a bit too much; in the "patch wish list" thread this post was just one amongst many. Many suggestions have been seen before. "Better GUI" or "Improved GUI" are very common, better battle reports as well, and everything in this post was very precisely said. It's much easier to go to the game, check if his point is true and perhaps look for a way to improve than to do it from "GUI could be improved" post. What's wrong with you guys? Really?

[MythicalMino]

ok....maybe Dominions just isn't for you. Illwinter took care of a lot of the things that the fans of Dominions 2 (not Pretenders 2) disliked....

That being said....

1. Random Map Generation works just fine in my opinion. That it takes a few extra minutes to make one really isn't that big an issue. If they didn't have a RMG this time around....then I would have a problem. But the generator works pretty good, I think.

1.2 Pretender Generation. Not sure why you want it all on one screen....That would be a lot of info on just one screen. Physical appearance, what magic and levels of magic, dominion and scales...all on the same screen? ok....

2. there are short cut keys to get rid of the troop movement arrows (if that is what you are talking about). Actually, there are short cut keys to take away a lot of the map icons. 1 = toggle off flags and forts; 2 = toggle armies; 3 = toggle dominion icons; 4. toggle resources/income; 5 = toggle temples/misc; 8 = toggle neighbors; 9 = toggle province names. It is pretty customizable as to what information and icons you can see at any time.

3. I can agree with, I think. There are still hang ups with the UI here and there....but it is better than it was.

4. Would be interesting....maybe you are looking for something that Stardock is doing with their story generator feature in their expansion for GalCiv2. Something about that though....it is interesting, but Brad Wardell (I am sure I have read) has said that if he didn't already commit to it, he would not be adding it. It takes a lot of time to do. I know I have read that in one of his dev reports on the game....Like I said, it would be interesting, but not sure if it is really viable for a dev team of 2 who works other jobs elsewhere.

Overall, the game is a big step up from Dom2 (and Dom2 was a step up from Dom1). There are things I wish that they did...like movement orders that would take more than one turn. BUT, I did notice last night, that there is a small icon that lets me know where my stealthy units (scouts being one of them) are located at. That really helps. I also wish that they would have added mouse roll-overs of some sort on the map screen when I put my mouse on one of the commander icons to let me see what he is holding, and what units are in his army. The RMG is something that I really like with the game....I love hand-drawn maps and all....but I also love the idea of random maps. To me, that really expands the single player games. It really didn't bother me too much with how long it takes to load it, though (honestly, it didn't).

One thing though about the game....the manual is really more a reference guide. It hearkens back to the day when the strategy guide was more included inside the manual. I remember my Civ2 manual from years ago...this manual reminds me so much of that one. The manual really does make the game easier to play and understand what is going on.

I am not saying that your complaints and gripes are not worth anything....but I think overall, IW did a great job with Dom3.

Chris

(Edit: At least you didn't complain about the price...which is the #1 problem ppl seem to have for some reason)

[Chazar]

...when I created my first random map with the demo, I was surprised by the long time it took (due to graphics problems, I can only run Dom3 on a 6 year old 700Mhz desktop). I immediately thought to myself: "Wow, they really spent some thought about how to generate usable maps - the result might really be usable!"

My Dom2 games with 4-6 players usually lasted 5-10 months. Most time was spent to adjust taxes and waiting for other players to submit their turn. I could not care less about turn processing times or random map creation. 3 hour turn-processing on turn 20 would be perfectly fine with me, since it is truly insignificant for the time scale of an MP game!

And although I am a follower of the MP-only faith, I also bet that many of those heretic SP-players would welcome one hour turn processing if the AI would act accordingly clever.