.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

Raging Tiger- Save $9.00
winSPMBT: Main Battle Tank- Save $6.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > Illwinter Game Design > Dominions 3: The Awakening

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 24th, 2008, 09:05 AM
Hoplosternum's Avatar

Hoplosternum Hoplosternum is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Romford, England
Posts: 445
Thanks: 95
Thanked 13 Times in 9 Posts
Hoplosternum is on a distinguished road
Default Multiplayer - which nations are being chosen?

I am not sure if this has been done before but I have started to go through the multiplayer games listed in the forum to see which powers are most often chosen to be played in each age.

I am not sure that this information is of any use other than interest and of course it is not complete yet.

People do not always pick the most powerful nation (in their opinion) but from the data there are certainly some nations that are far more popular than others and few that are extremely unpopular. And I am sure that I am not the only one who has wanted to join a game but seen that the nation I wanted to play (and often my 2nd, 3rd and 4th picks too) had already gone. So I am interested to see if people in general pick the power nations (Good double bless nations, nations powerful in astral or blood etc.) or if any other trends would appear.

So far I have only looked at the first three pages of the multiplayer forum, but I intend to continue on and go further back. This sample includes many of the newbie games set up by Llamabeast and others in the New Year. I have made no distinctions between newbie games and those with more experienced players.

Apart from Blitz style games (which are completely excluded from these numbers) I have also excluded some other games from the analysis. This is because what I am interested in is people’s choices. So where the choice was very limited I have excluded the game. So the following types of games were excluded:

1) Games that had the nations assigned randomly to the players. Obviously the players made no personnel choice in this case on which nation to pick.

2) Games that included nearly all the nations in an age. The people choosing last would obviously have little choice and many people will play if the time/game is right regardless of what nation they have. But I am interested in who people want to play. There was no hard limit here. The eras have different numbers of powers and many LA games exclude Ermor and R’lyeh as well so limiting choice.

3) Games that were not yet full up. As these may be added to the data later I have not included these.

4) Games that spanned multiple ages. There were few of these in any case and I think they make the game play quite differently. The advantage of certain LA nations is their magic diversity or of EA nations is their armour or better bows that is lost if you play against other era nations where they can become merely average or even bad in those areas in comparison. Plus my analysis was on an age by age basis so these would have messed this up

There were games that I have included but the options may change people’s picks. I do not think any changes the game radically enough to fundamentally influence the nation choices. Some make nations more viable but I don’t think that players are purely power gaming when choosing nations. These include the following:

1) Significant mods such as CBM and Epic Heroes. Apart from Worthy Heroes games with mods seemed rather rare. CBM mod certainly makes a lot of changes and could make some nations more interesting or powerful (LA Pangaea for example by restoring the Carrion Woods). But it does not radically alter the nature of many nations, perhaps only LA Pangaea? It tweaks rather than balances the nations in most cases as it does not radically affect magic paths on national mages or drastically nerf or boost national troops.

2) Research speeds and indie strengths. Both can change the game and make some choices better or worse. But there were few of these and the changes were not extreme in most cases. Indie 6 rather than indie 9 etc. Hard rather than Very Hard research.

3) Team games were included unless they failed on one of the above four tests (which most did fail on). Some nations can be weak on their own but be far better in multiplayer, specifically those that have slow starts wcan be shielded to a degree in a team game. But not all team, games even place the teams together so I am not sure how significant this would be so I have included them where possible.

4) Games with mod nations. I have not included the mod nations themselves in the numbers and these games were rare. But I do not think a mod nation in the game drastically changes which nations others will pick. No more than the presence of other sea or blood nations (in particular) influences a player’s selection of another. So I have included the none-mod nations in the figures.

5) Games with a small amount of exclusions or certain picks. Especially the LA games that ban Ermor and R’lyeh, but there were some games that insisted on a certain number of sea nations etc too. While these obviously influence the picks (or none picks) of these nations they probably don’t affect the choice of the other 10 or so other nations so I have included them all.

6) I have included the ‘new’ nations such as Bogarus and Hinnom. Although in some cases these were not available when the games started. So especially with these the figures are suspect. Sometimes they could not be picked and then once they could be everyone wants to try them.

Games included and the results to follow....
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old July 24th, 2008, 09:06 AM
Hoplosternum's Avatar

Hoplosternum Hoplosternum is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Romford, England
Posts: 445
Thanks: 95
Thanked 13 Times in 9 Posts
Hoplosternum is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Multiplayer - which nations are being chosen?

The games analysed so far

Apologies in advance for the inevitable mistakes I have made. I have largely trusted the initial post on which nations were in the game as usually this is updated with the final list. Please let me know if you see any mistakes or games you think should be excluded. Table reads Shortened game name / Age / Number of eligible nations

Peccary EA 8
Jotunland EA 10
Glory MA 15
Crow Road MA 10
BlitzKrieg EA 8
TucoTuco MA 8
FreshMeat EA 10
Darwin EA 12
Stasis MA 17
Aquarium MA 15
Bering EA 7
Beer EA 17
Corruption LA 11
Playtime EA 12
Primea MA 12
Feohtan EA 12
Tigerstripes MA 10
DkParadise EA 8
Silvan MA 8
Strolling 2 EA 12
LA game LA 14
Paladin EA 8
Alexandria LA 12
Forseti MA 12
Vanilla LA LA 11
Newbtopia EA 8
Mega'rium MA 9
EmpiresRis MA 8
Ascendant EA 15
Acouchi MA 16
NEW EA EA 18
Uakari MA 9
Victoria LA 15
New Dawn EA 12
LeafNBat EA 8
Fracture LA 16
Manatee EA 16
FrMeat2 EA 12
FunnelBat MA 8
FruitBat EA 8
VesperBat LA 15
GhostBat MA 8
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old July 24th, 2008, 09:09 AM
Hoplosternum's Avatar

Hoplosternum Hoplosternum is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Romford, England
Posts: 445
Thanks: 95
Thanked 13 Times in 9 Posts
Hoplosternum is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Multiplayer - which nations are being chosen?

The results so far

The below results tables read Nation / number of times played/ Quantum Mechani’s amalgamated nation rating. The last figure is of QM’s total points rating (adding his valuation of Early/Mid/Late/SP & Ease of MP use). This is purely for interest sake and although not created for this purpose gives some indication of how powerful the nations are relative to each other.

The EA gave the most games so far (20) and here are the scores:

Lanka - 16 - Not rated (!)
Sauromatia - 15 - 14
Niefelhiem - 13 - 23
Arco - 12 - 14
Fomoria - 11 - 16
Marverni - 11 - 11
Helhiem - 10 - 21
Mictlan - 10 - 19
Pangaea - 10 - 15
TC - 10 - 13
Hinnom - 9 - 19
Aby - 9 - 15
Tir an Og - 9 - 15
Caelum - 9 - 14
Agartha - 9 - 14
Ermor - 8 - 16
Kailasa - 8 - 14
C'tis - 8 - 13
R'lyeh - 8 - 13
Ulm - 7 - 13
Vanhiem - 6 - 18
Oceania - 5 - 17
Atlantis - 5 - 15
Yomi - 2 - 14

So Lanka is the most popular from the games I looked at, followed by Sauromatia, then Niefel. Yomi was spectacularly unpopular. Nor did Vanheim or many of the Water nations prove popular picks. Apart from R’lyeh the water nations were unpopular in other eras too.

For the MA nations there were less games but it was still a popular age with 15 games

Vanhiem - 11 - 20
Abysia - 11 - 15
Ulm - 10 - 13
TC - 10 - 13
R'lyeh - 9 - 17
Pangaea - 9 - 15
Bandar Log - 9 - 15
Ermor - 8 - 22
Pythium - 8 - 17
Arco - 7 - 18
Eriu - 7 - 15
Mackaka - 7 - 14
Caelum - 7 - 14
C'tis - 7 - 12
Agartha - 7 - 10
Jotunhiem - 6 - 19
Marignon - 6 - 15
Mictlan - 6 - 15
Shinuyama - 5 - 16
Oceania - 4 - 18
Atlantis - 4 - 13
Ashod - 3 - 16
Man - 3 - 14

Perhaps no surprise that Vanheim was the joint winner in the popularity stakes but Abysia being picked so often surprised me. Ulm and TC were both surprisingly popular as neither are exactly powerhouses although TC’s magic variety makes them interesting to play.

Ignoring the new nation, Man and none R’lyeh water nations were unpopular. Yomi’s MA stable mate Shinuyama was also fairly unpopular.

In the LA there were far fewer games. Only 7 made the cut. And of these most had a lot of nations playing so it is hard to tell how popular the choices actually were. Also Ermor and R’lyeh are low due to being excluded from 2 of the 7.

So for completeness I have included the figures for LA but little can be drawn from them.

Utgard - 6 - 20
Mictlan - 6 - 17
C'tis - 6 - 14
Abysia - 6 - 13
Bogarus - 6 - 13
Pangaea - 5 - 18
Marignon - 5 - 17
TC - 5 - 17
Patala - 5 - 12
Ulm - 5 - 11
Jomon - 5 - 10
Ermor - 4 - 24
Agartha - 4 - 18
Arco - 4 - 17
Caelum - 4 - 16
Man - 4 - 15
Atlantis - 4 - 12
R'lyeh - 3 - 22
Pythium - 3 - 14
Midgard - 2 - 19
Gath - 1 - 17

[Edited for formatting]
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old July 25th, 2008, 04:22 AM
JimMorrison's Avatar

JimMorrison JimMorrison is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Utopia, Oregon
Posts: 2,676
Thanks: 83
Thanked 143 Times in 108 Posts
JimMorrison is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Multiplayer - which nations are being chosen?

Very interesting stuff! Some of the results surprise me a little, including the fact that 5 of 7 LA games allowed Ermor and R'lyeh.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old July 25th, 2008, 04:32 AM
Kristoffer O's Avatar

Kristoffer O Kristoffer O is offline
General
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,463
Thanks: 25
Thanked 92 Times in 43 Posts
Kristoffer O is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Multiplayer - which nations are being chosen?

Interesting!

I wondered about this just a few days ago, and then you make this list

Jim, likely they were started before the discussion on power levels started in full earnest.
__________________
www.illwinter.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old July 25th, 2008, 04:39 AM
Kristoffer O's Avatar

Kristoffer O Kristoffer O is offline
General
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,463
Thanks: 25
Thanked 92 Times in 43 Posts
Kristoffer O is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Multiplayer - which nations are being chosen?

I believe that it is likely that a nation gets additional players when it gets a remake, minor or major. People want to try new stuff out.

Marverni, Ulm, TC have all received alterations after the MP games started. As have MA Mictlan with 6 players, which was more than I thought it would have.

Yomi is possibly the one nation I am most bothered by myself. I played it a bit in Kingmaker to get some inspiration. I have some Ideas, but they require JK's attention. Apart from that I'm a bit bothered by their appearence. I dislike their looks. Not individually as much as a bunch of units.
__________________
www.illwinter.com
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old July 25th, 2008, 01:13 PM
sansanjuan's Avatar

sansanjuan sansanjuan is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 887
Thanks: 144
Thanked 40 Times in 36 Posts
sansanjuan is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Multiplayer - which nations are being chosen?

Interesting post Hop.
-SSJ
__________________
"I think, therefore I am" - René Descartes

"I yam what I yam" - Popeye
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old July 25th, 2008, 01:26 PM
DonCorazon's Avatar

DonCorazon DonCorazon is offline
Colonel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: in a sleepy daze
Posts: 1,678
Thanks: 116
Thanked 57 Times in 33 Posts
DonCorazon is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Multiplayer - which nations are being chosen?

I think MA Ulm gets played because there is a myth that it is a good choice for new players since you don't need to deal with as much complexity with magic. At least that was why I chose it for my first MP game (before it got the upgrade). I actually disagree that it is good for noobs since you don't learn as much without access to more magic / communions / path boosting, etc.
__________________
i crossed blades with the mightiest warriors of the golden age. i witnessed with sorrow the schism that led to the passing of legends. now my sword hangs in its scabbard, with nothing but memories to keep it warm.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old July 25th, 2008, 02:25 PM
Dedas's Avatar

Dedas Dedas is offline
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lund, Sweden
Posts: 1,377
Thanks: 72
Thanked 25 Times in 20 Posts
Dedas is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Multiplayer - which nations are being chosen?

MA Ulm is a very hard nation to play competitively as it leaves no room for mistakes. Less options and you have to do perfect with those you've got.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old July 25th, 2008, 02:58 PM
Gandalf Parker's Avatar

Gandalf Parker Gandalf Parker is offline
Shrapnel Fanatic
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Vacaville, CA, USA
Posts: 13,736
Thanks: 341
Thanked 479 Times in 326 Posts
Gandalf Parker is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Multiplayer - which nations are being chosen?

Excellent work. And very useful.
Thank you.
__________________
-- DISCLAIMER:
This game is NOT suitable for students, interns, apprentices, or anyone else who is expected to pass tests on a regular basis. Do not think about strategies while operating heavy machinery. Before beginning this game make arrangements for someone to check on you daily. If you find that your game has continued for more than 36 hours straight then you should consult a physician immediately (Do NOT show him the game!)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2024, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.