speed of M8 greyhound, M20 & M3 scout car

[Ironfist]

Unit 28 (M8 greyhound) in OOB12 (US Army) has speed of 20. It seems this is too slow. M8 has a speed of 89~100 kph according to the following site.

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/armored-cars/m-8.asp

It is mentioned in other site that M8 gains the nickname "greyhound" by the British due to its fast speed and thin armor. A speed of 20 (60 kph) should not be impressive.

And M20 should have at least the same speed as M8.
I checked OOB12 in MBT, M8 (unit 55) has a speed of 20 while M20 (unit 56) has a speed of 28.

The speed of M3 scout car (unit 133) is 21 (63 kph) in OOB12. At the same website, it has a speed of 81 kph.

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/armored-cars/m3-a1.asp

Other sites have different speeds, but all well above 63 kph.

Weapon of M20:
It seems that the .50cal MG in M20 is intended for AA. So maybe it is better to be a 50cal AAMG instead of 50cal TMG. There is no turret in M20, only an AA ring.
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/armored-cars/m-20.asp

Another possible error:
Unit 427 (rifle squad) in OOB12 (US Army) has M1 rifle in BOTH slot 1 & slot 4. I think it means someone in the squad is carrying two rifles in game concept. Maybe a mistake?

Best Regards
Ironfist

[DRG]

I'll look into the M8 issue

Re Unit 427. No, there are a few units in the OOB's with two weapons of he same type unit 431 is one example

[thatguy96]

Ian Hogg's American Arsenal, which I've quoted from before, says that the M8's speed on a level grade is 55 mph, but is reduced to 30 mph with as little as a 3% grade. I would say that speeds like 55 mph are much more likely speeds on improved level roads, rather than any indication of off-road speed, which has to be taken into account since the vehicle is classified as AT-wheel (though from Zaloga's Osprey on the series, maybe wheel would better represent its reportedly dismal off-road capabilities). Same goes for the M3 scout car (which has a top speed of 50 mph according to Hogg's book).

The British were originally slated to recieve them under lend lease, but after testing them declined, in favor of the T17E1, which they gave the name Staghound.

EDIT- Actually, I'm not sure what the movement type for armored cars is at default, which is what the M8 is set at in the USA OOB at least, so this might be a non-issue.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by thatguy96

Ian Hogg's American Arsenal, which I've quoted from before, says that the M8's speed on a level grade is 55 mph, but is reduced to 30 mph with as little as a 3% grade. I would say that speeds like 55 mph are much more likely speeds on improved level roads, rather than any indication of off-road speed, which has to be taken into account since the vehicle is classified as AT-wheel (though from Zaloga's Osprey on the series, maybe wheel would better represent its reportedly dismal off-road capabilities). Same goes for the M3 scout car (which has a top speed of 50 mph according to Hogg's book).

The British were originally slated to recieve them under lend lease, but after testing them declined, in favor of the T17E1, which they gave the name Staghound.

Assuming a vehicle has a top speed of 55 mph this converts to 88.5kph which when converted to the game speed is 29.5 which rounds up to 30. That's the speed it will get on a road. Cross country it would get half that.Effectively giving it a CC speed of 27 - 28 MPH which is reasonably close to what the website quoted above says it could do.

Whether that's 100% true or not on a vehicle to vehicle comparision is irrelevant. When possible ( these days ) we try to avoid "interpreting" results . That's what had us chasing down "errors" in the OOB's for years when a OOB designer would make "adjustements" based on reports of one sort or another.

Don

[chuckfourth]

[quote=DRG;658442]

Originally Posted by thatguy96

Whether that's 100% true or not on a vehicle to vehicle comparision is irrelevant. When possible ( these days ) we try to avoid "interpreting" results . That's what had us chasing down "errors" in the OOB's for years when a OOB designer would make "adjustements" based on reports of one sort or another.
Don

Hi Don
Wouldnt you be able to get around that problem by putting the explanation for the units anamolous top speed in the units text file? Similar to the explanation say of french tank guns poor AP performance being modeled by making their AP rounds sabot.
You could even slap a few references in the text file as well.

While Im on the topic of speed (and I know it isnt going to happen) If you ever were going to give the units there 'correct' rough speeds rather than having rough speeds as a fixed proportion of top speeds you woulndt have to use the EW slot to put in the rough speed as I suggested earlier, you could just factor the top speed down so the rough speed is correct and the top speed is wrong. You could justify the 'wrong' top speed by saying that top speed is rarely reached, or varies considerably due to grades, surfaces, corners, visibility etc etc.
Always happy to do the work for you of course
Best Regards Chuck.