Thug/SC warfare question

[Deadnature]

There are numerous guides/tips floating around these forums about creating good thugs and SCs. As a semi-noob, I find that doing well until late-midgame/late game is no longer a problem for me.

However, when it comes to fighting the late game wars I seem lost about how to pursue a decent strategy involving thugs/SC, both in defending against them and using them offensively. A particular problem for me are the flyers, is there a decent way to intercept them other than guessing their next destination?

thanks in advance guys,
- Deadnature

[archaeolept]

** swing low, sweet chariot **

ie. Teleport on their ***. also, depending on how strong they are, rituals like earth attack or ghost riders might work on them.

[OmikronWarrior]

Indeed, as archaeolept suggests, stopping them may be a lost cause. Instead, you have to kill them after they land. There are numerous ways to accomplish this depending on the thug/SC you need to nullify. For example:

Kill spells such as Seeking Arrow, Mind Hunt, and Vengeance of the Dead can make a well equiped thug very cost inefficient.

Anti-thugs, or units designed and equiped to quickly kill thug/SC chasis and little else, are also effective counters, especially if they can cast Teleport or Cloud Trapeze. These spells move units in the "magic movement" phase, which occurs before the normal map movement phase, and results in a battle before the SC or thug can move away.

Finally, guessing where the thug or SC is going to move behind your lines and putting an army there can work, though obviously is not as efficient.

[Executor]

Anti SC/thug strategy depends on the MR, Defense, Protection, awe, fear, regeneration...

Here's something that pretty much always works.
Two thugs, first set to lower the defense. Every attack is -2 defense so you give gloves of gladiator and a stone bird, also put boots of quickness.
That gives 16 attack, -32 defense. Than take the other thug equipped him with some AP/AN items, gate cleaver or dusk dagger, and give some strength boosters.

The important thing is to kill him while he is still buffing himself.

[Sombre]

How do you control in which order the two anti-thugs attack him?

[Tifone]

Wouldn't the order in which they're showed in the commander's list work? (still seems not so easy)

[Executor]

Just as Tifone says, the first in commader list will be the first to attack, and therefor he'll be the one to kick down his defense.
This can even work with air/astral mages, as long as the SC doesn't have luck or regeneration.

[SlipperyJim]

OmikronWarrior and archaeolept are right. The best way to deal with a highly-mobile thug or SC is to whack him before he can move.

The problem is that most thugs (and all SCs) have high magic resistance and strong defense, so most assassination spells (Mind Hunt, etcetera) will be iffy. Still, I have found that gearing up a "battery" of Mind Hunters with penetration items can give them a chance even against a high-MR target. Rune Smashers, Spell Foci, and Eyes of the Void are your friends! If you have three (or more) S4 mages equipped with the right gear, then you can just keep Mind Hunting until you succeed. He'll fail his MR check eventually....

If you happen to have the coveted Blood-Astral combo, then you can also spam Call Horror rituals at the thugs/SCs. A top-notch SC will probably be able to take a Horror, but a mere thug should be Horror Chow. Fliers are especially vulnerable to this approach (unless they're immune to Fear), because they're frequently behind your lines with no clear path to retreat. Even if the Horrors don't kill them, enough Fear bonus will still make them rout. With no retreat path, a routed thug or SC will simply die.

Another great choice is to Teleport or Cloud Trapeeze your own SCs (or anti-SCs) into battle. As OmikronWarrior mentioned, magic movement happens before "regular" movement -- even against fliers -- so a Teleporter can intercept the badguys before they can move!

There are many customized anti-SC / anti-thug tactics to try. One of my favorites is a little spell called Paralyze. Teleport a couple of Astral mages along with your own thug(s). Tell the mages to spam Paralyze, and the badguy won't be able to fight back. Easy kill for your own thug!

Assassination attempts also take place before the regular movement phase. If you happen to have some really buff assassins available to you (big "if"), then you can place them in the likely target provinces. Wait for the enemy thugs or SCs to fly into the provinces, and then assassinate them before they can continue their rampage! However, please note that an assassin who can stand up to a thug (let alone a true SC) is quite rare, so this option is least likely to succeed.

[Tifone]

Just for clarity to the readers, and not to split hairs on words , I correct Slippery - the ritual he's referring to is "Send Horror", and not "Call Horror" which is a battlefield spell. - This can be used in the same way of Send Horror (and earlier in research IIRC and for less slaves) if the SC is near a friendly province: Teleport in a mage to call some horrors (eventually Horror Marking the guy too), then have the mage retreat in friendly territory.

[SlipperyJim]

Send Horror, not Call Horror. Thanks, Tifone.