Best Turmoil Luck Nations

[licker]

Just curious what people think about that combo. Obviously it's more effective for some nations than others, but I'm curious to see if anyone unexpected shows up on the list...

So far some good comments in general on those scales, here's the listed nations:

Kailasa
EA/MA Pangaea
Mictlan
Ermor (all ages?)
LA Ermor and R'lyeh
and...
Blood nations generically.

[DonCorazon]

I won't play Turmoil/Luck anymore. I know others will defend it but I have never been able to deal with the lost income from Turmoil over the long run. I do like Luck, and every now and then will play some Order / Luck despite the lack of synergies, usually in a graphs on game where I want some hidden gem/gold income, but even that I do less of these days.

A recent MP game I am in with Order 3 / Misf 2 - first turn got a +750gp event. Thats what I am talking about. Misf when things go bad, you say hey at least I got some design points out of it, when things go right, you feel like you worked the system. Luck is kind of the opposite feeling and when you get a string of bad events you are like wtf, I paid for these scales!

[Dedas]

Originally Posted by DonCorazon

I won't play Turmoil/Luck anymore. I know others will defend it but I have never been able to deal with the lost income from Turmoil over the long run. I do like Luck, and every now and then will play some Order / Luck despite the lack of synergies, usually in a graphs on game where I want some hidden gem/gold income, but even that I do less of these days.

A recent MP game I am in with Order 3 / Misf 2 - first turn got a +750gp event. Thats what I am talking about. Misf when things go bad, you say hey at least I got some design points out of it, when things go right, you feel like you worked the system. Luck is kind of the opposite feeling and when you get a string of bad events you are like wtf, I paid for these scales!

I agree with you. But what people seem to miss is that you don't have to take 3/3 scales all the time. I've been playing around with turmoil 1 and luck 2 and it's a good balance.

[Tifone]

I'd say, a viable idea for everybody with a so pityful PD which won't stand barbarians/knights attacks without being doomed to lose the province. And nations which benefit on the long run way more from gems than from gold.

Given this, Kailasa truly comes to mind, to begin. I'll think about others

[Gregstrom]

EA/MA Pangaea are a classic reference here, so I'll get them out of the way early on.

[Meglobob]

Mictlan is a classic turmoil/luck nation.

Low resource troops.

0 gold cost summons for mid/late game.

Order is useless when blood hunting with tax 0, as you should be with Mictlan.
You after be careful managing upkeep with Mictlan, for example with a, 'normal' nation you may end up with upkeep 1000 - 3000+, with Mictlan your upkeep should never really be much over 500 - 1000 gps. I am talking about 40 - 100 provinces here.

Always be on the look out for gold mines with Mictlan or any other turmoil nation. Tax / patrol / pillage to 0 population, then leave permanently at 200 tax to maximise income. Nice side effect of inflicting some nasty starvation effects on any invading armies.

[Gandalf Parker]

Definetly EA/MA Pangaea.
You can also take low production. Using the extra points to push Magic, or Growth can be a useful build.

There are others where you can play without much reliance on armored troops. Nations which have a high capablity for stealth, or assassins, or seducers, or mages. Anywhere that the protections are more likely to come from gems than the equipment that comes on purchased units.

--
per peer-pressure preoccupation
My maps, mods, and mullings can be found at
http://www.Dom3Minions.com

[JimMorrison]

The worst misconception, in my eyes, is that if you are taking 3Luck, you MUST take 3Turmoil in order to "maximize" your events.

You may be maximizing your events, but you are killing your baseline income to do so, and this is why the Luck vs Order debates always seem to point in favor of Order.

I find that you can optimize the benefits of 3Luck by (depending on if you are going to go Blood later, or other factors) taking between 1Turmoil, and 1Order. Your base income hit is much lower, and you don't have to get huge to get all of your events, like with 3Order/3Luck. Compare 0Order/3Luck against 3Order/0Luck, and point cost is the same - so if you don't absolutely need a constant income, it's often better because of items/gems/heroes that you get for free, and can't really put a pricetag on.

That said, the nations that can get by best with a Luck build, are often the heavy Blood, or heavy Bless nations. Honestly I think it would be easier to compile a list of all the nations that it's almost suicide to not take 3Order, such as Vanheim and Tir n'a n'Og, whose glamoured troops are so horribly gold expensive.

[Dorjan]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

The worst misconception, in my eyes, is that if you are taking 3Luck, you MUST take 3Turmoil in order to "maximize" your events.

You may be maximizing your events, but you are killing your baseline income to do so, and this is why the Luck vs Order debates always seem to point in favor of Order.

The idea is to get something for nothing. +3 in luck and +3 in turmoil will give you a base-line for "free" design wise. So it's not a "must" but it's a recommendation starting point.

I myself play Luck with order often and it works well if you can afford the design points. Lump of rock astral pretender usually works well if you are going for the income heavy nation but you must have a good "plan" for trying to up your magic elsewhere as you might be limiting yourself.

[squeezing]

What about MA C'tis ?? what does people think and why? would really appreciate some thoughts on this since I'm having a hard time deciding myself...