uncastable spell scripting (and can the AI cast newly researched spells?)

[Omnirizon]

there is of course the very necessary feature that a spell which a mage doesn't possess enough ranks in to cast is still scriptable (and will just be ignored if it can't be cast). This is of course because a spell may be cast or a gem used that increases path rank, making a previously uncastable spell castable.

this post is not about that.



I'm talking about scripting a spell you havn't researched yet. How many times do you know you will have a particular spell researched next turn and would like to script it for your mages to cast in battles that will be occurring that turn. Research occurs _first_, so shouldn't those spells become immediately available?

If you say no, then we need to ask if I research a particular spell, and don't script my mages, then can they cast it?

If the answer is yes, then that means this spell is available for the mage to cast, yet it isn't available for you to script. The only way to cast it would be to not script your mages (or for them to cast it after the 5 turn script ends).


so that's the question.
1. can the AI cast a spell that you researched that turn?
2. if so, then wouldn't it be nice to be able to script that spell?


(on an extra note, can mages similarly cast spells that they just empowered a rank in? if so, shouldn't we be able to script those too?)

[thejeff]

The AI can cast a spell you researched that turn. It happens fairly frequently.

It would be nice to be able to script them, especially for early game self-buffers. Would let them go out a turn earlier in some cases. But, since the interface cannot know, when you script your mages, which new spells will be available next turn, since you can add/remove researchers or change research targets, all spells would have to be available, which might be a bit much.

Empowerment scripting would be less useful. I don't think I've ever planned for a mage to get into a fight on the same turn he empowered, so I wouldn't have bothered even if it was available. I guess it might come into play with assassinations?
If you've got anyone else with the path combination, you can copy the script in to the empowering mage.

[Ironhawk]

You can cast spells that you have researched that turn, yes.

As to whether you should be able to script them: no. Way too big of a hassle for way too small of a scenario.

[Omnirizon]

why not be able to script them? I frequently encounter this issue, or else I wouldn't ask about it. in early game it is of course encountered, in mid game too; even in late game it comes up most games because I may lag one research school but then find I'm suddenly being thrown in a fight (through your typical late game surprises) where I need a particular spell from a school I've been ignoring next turn. Due to all my mages I may be able to go from level 0 to level 5 in one turn.

it would sure be nice to be able to script those spells. I think this is a common and meaningful scenario.

all it involves is making all spells available to script, in much the same way that all spells of a given school at your current research level are already available (with the ones that you can't cast right then greyed out).

just that should be an almost trivial addition to make. It shouldn't be much of a hassle at all.

if the devs wanted to spruce it up then they could have a little filter interface where you select what paths and schools you want to view. but even without that, I'd trade a cluttered spell selection for being able to script spells I might have next turn.


Lastly, this is made more meaningful because the current way favors situations were a player will get a key spell that the AI favors (like raise dead/skeletons). That player will get an extra advantage over another player who just got a key spell that the AI will never cast but that can be very crucial for a given battle (some resistance spell perhaps).

[lch]

I've always found it inconvenient not being able to cast spells that are in the spellbook the next turn, but can't be scripted in the current turn, too. There are some key spells that you need ASAP.

[Illuminated One]

I don't know, it would be nice theoretically but I dread the moment when I open the spellbook of a late game mage with 800 spells to select from.
If it was optional (press r to toggle between researched spells/all spells) it would be cool though.

[vfb]

@IlluminatedOne: You can hit the path key, for example 'E' for earth, to just show earth spells. This makes it a lot easier to find the spell you want, when everything is researched.

[lch]

I wasn't saying that it should show "all spells", but "spells that would be researched next turn with the current research settings". And of course this means that if you somehow don't manage to have the necessary research next turn, because a couple of researching mages have been killed by remote attacks for example, then the script for them would be ignored and discarded, like the game already does now, I'd expect. Maybe show those spells with 50% transparency to make the difference clear.

[vfb]

Research happens in turn sequence 2, before remote attacks or anything else that might affect research, so you should always reach your targets every turn.

But like you say, if for some reason a scripted spell is uncastable, it's just ignored.

[JimMorrison]

I think perhaps, rather than having some sort of check for what -will- be available next turn, we might be more likely to get a "See All" button (Maybe X?) in the spellbook, that allows you to script whatever you want. It doesn't matter if it's this turn you get it, next turn, or 30 turns from now, because the AI will ignore it if you can't cast it.

Just seems like this would be far easier to implement, even if a little more cumbersome for the user. If our possibilities are no change, a fantasy that won't happen, or a small change that works "okay", I know which one I would choose.