Chinese flamethrowers

[redcoat2]

I was picking a Chinese PLA force for a Sino-Vietnamese War (1979) battle when I realised that I couldn’t find any units with flamethrowers. I think the PLA may have used them at the time. Here is a photo that is supposed to be from the conflict:



I’ve flicked through the engineer units in obat14 and found only one equipped with flamethrowers: Unit 328. The start date for the unit is January 1981. The Sino-Vietnamese War was fought in February 1979 – although there were a few border skirmishes in the 1980s as well. Perhaps the start date for unit 328 could be reviewed?

[PlasmaKrab]

From the picture, looks like the old Russian favorite the LPO-50:
http://waffen-der-welt.alices-world....fer/index.html
http://www.russianwarrior.com/STMMai...on_flame.htm&1
Apparently fielded in the late 60s-early 70s in USSR, license-produced in China, so it was probably quite new for the war with Vietnam. Say maybe 5 years earlier than the existing unit you mention, barring any real info.
I can hardly believe no older models were in service before that though.

[redcoat2]

Yes. I think the flamethrower may be a Chinese Type 74 – which is a direct copy of the Russian LPO-50. I don’t know when NORINCO in China started to manufacture the weapon. It may be that the Chinese started to make the Type 74 when they were still on good terms with the Soviets – a few years before 1979.

When I googled ‘flamethrower’ and the ‘Sino-Vietnamese War’ I got this forum thread:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...95244&start=60

The post at the bottom mentions a photo in a book showing a flamethrower being used by the PLA during the war.

Edit: I wonder why the Chinese flamethrower is called the Type 74? 1974 perhaps?

[PlasmaKrab]

Originally Posted by redcoat2

Yes. I think the flamethrower may be a Chinese Type 74 – which is a direct copy of the Russian LPO-50. I don’t know when NORINCO in China started to manufacture the weapon. It may be that the Chinese started to make the Type 74 when they were still on good terms with the Soviets – a few years before 1979.

OK, I had't found info about the Chinese version. According to Wikipedia there is also a Chinese Type-58 flamethrower, but no more info there.

Edit: I wonder why the Chinese flamethrower is called the Type 74? 1974 perhaps?

Standard PLA practice AFAIK, but the Type-XX would generally be the year of type-classification, not IOC. Given the notoriously long trial runs favored by the PLA, it may actually have been rushed into service in '79, or have been very shortly in service outside training units.
OTOH the IOC of the LPO-50 itself (in USSR) is less and less clear the more I look into it. Apparently no one has accurate info and it is just consistently described as "post-war" which could mean anything from 1946 to 1989.

[redcoat2]

Originally Posted by PlasmaKrab

OK, I had't found info about the Chinese version. According to Wikipedia there is also a Chinese Type-58 flamethrower, but no more info there.

The Wikipedia Type 58 flamethrower is something of a mystery to me. I would be interested in learning more about it – if it exists.

Originally Posted by PlasmaKrab

Standard PLA practice AFAIK, but the Type-XX would generally be the year of type-classification, not IOC. Given the notoriously long trial runs favored by the PLA, it may actually have been rushed into service in '79, or have been very shortly in service outside training units.
OTOH the IOC of the LPO-50 itself (in USSR) is less and less clear the more I look into it. Apparently no one has accurate info and it is just consistently described as "post-war" which could mean anything from 1946 to 1989.

Indeed. The year would be the year of classification. However, I think the Chinese may have been quick to produce and introduce a tried and tested weapon. It may even be – and I am speculating now - that the Soviets gave the Chinese the design so that they could produce it for Communist forces in the ongoing Vietnam War. I would not be surprised if the PLA had the Type 74 in 1979 – five years after receiving the design.

The Russian Warrior link you posted earlier suggests that the LPO-50 may have been introduced around 1968. It could be correct. The Americans captured LP-50s in Vietnam. A CIA Intelligence Memorandum entitled ‘Sources of Military Equipment to Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Military Forces’ - written in 1968 - shows that LP-50s were captured as early as that year.

[PlasmaKrab]

Originally Posted by redcoat2

Indeed. The year would be the year of classification. However, I think the Chinese may have been quick to produce and introduce a tried and tested weapon. It may even be – and I am speculating now - that the Soviets gave the Chinese the design so that they could produce it for Communist forces in the ongoing Vietnam War. I would not be surprised if the PLA had the Type 74 in 1979 – five years after receiving the design.

The Russian Warrior link you posted earlier suggests that the LPO-50 may have been introduced around 1968. It could be correct. The Americans captured LP-50s in Vietnam. A CIA Intelligence Memorandum entitled ‘Sources of Military Equipment to Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Military Forces’ - written in 1968 - shows that LP-50s were captured as early as that year.

1968 would make the most sense as far as I have seen, though some sources unspecifically hint at earlier in the 50s/60s (the same Russian Warrior site has it referenced in the weapons of the earlier period).

Regarding Chinese IOC, some also would have the Type-74 be improved over the LPO. In this case it wouldn't be a straight copy and would take longer to put through the motions.
Going out on a limb, there's also the fact that Sino-Soviet relations weren't at their best in '74, let alone '68, so the Type-74 flamethrower could even be a retroengineered copy from some samples loaned, why not, by the NVA?

Anyhow, we could argue about dates for years, and I don't think it would change much at gameplay level.
I'm not even sure the stats are that different between a new LPO-50 and the ROKS series, so if we assume the existence of a Chinese Type-58 based on wartime Soviet models, you can have a single "Flamethrower" weapon used since around 1960.

[Imp]

chemical battalions under Corps control

That would make sense if I had them might give a couple to the divisions for use as needed but would generally use them when needed as in urban or bunker busting when Corps decides suitable targets.