Scenario: ZOMG! - Nazis!!

[Mobhack]

What if some 70s Hollywood producer wrote a disaster movie where some Nazis were resurrected by a mad scientist? Now you can find out.

Just a little bit of fun to see how some more modern kit interacts with the later-war German stuff.

Cheers
Andy

[whdonnelly]

This is fun, but the stinking girlfriend surrendered. I'll have to take another crack at it.

[Kenny]

I absolutely love these "what if" type scenarios! Bravo,and thanks,Andy

I'm of the opinion that the Panther model G was still the best tank in the world until 1955. This scenario is heavy stacked in favor of the Zombies(reminding me of what we faced as to the Warsaw Pact forces on the other side of the East German border), so I thought about moving the time frame up 6 years to try and "even up" the odds just a bit. This revision is now a 1974 encounter with the Zombies squaring off against Fox Troop(my unit),with the support of "H Company"(M60A1), from the 2nd Squadron,11th ACR in 1974. The adjusted U.S. TO&E is roughly based on what we would have fielded against an overwhelming opposing force over the same battle frontage in the Meinegan Gap area.

Since the Zombies have no artillery,I've eliminated the immediate direct fire support from our M109A1 "How Battery". This would have been devastaing and unbalanced this scenario. In reality each Sheridan platoon had 6 551A1 vehicles and one M106 SP mortar. Also,the 2 cavalty scout squads and one Dragon team per platoon aren't reflected here either in this update to the terrific original scenario by Andy.

Play the U.S. side and your chances of surviving this encounter improve a bit.

[Mobhack]

The scenario was designed with M60A3 first, then dialled down to 1968 to make it more challenging. (Late model 90mm guns v 88L71). I also dialled it up to 84 or so and tried TTS/M1 and Bradleys..

M60s and Dragon armed mech inf ate the Tiger 2s for breakfast and the panthers were cardboard range cut-outs. The TTS version and especially the M1 Abrams with 105m hardly noticed their presence, even if dialled down to 2 sections of M1 and a platoon of M2 Bradleys - which were happily killing Panthers with side 25mm cannon shots while hiding behind their smoke dischargers... and the TOWS were having a blast.

One M1 (early 105mm model) platoon should have the entire zombie horde nailed and still have some ammo left, IMHO.

So the 68 era troops, which are not invulnerable to even the 75mm on Panther, and can be shot frontally by the 88. That and the inclusion of the 'Kitsap county' preservationists M47 as an example of early post-war US kit, which are even less invulnerable and have a basically WW2 era 90mm gun.

The later WW2 German kit loses out in lack of range finding and fire control, no stabiliser etc - but the slugs they fire are still quite potent to 1970-ish armour (unless Chieftains, later Centurions, T10). Leopard 1 and AMX-30 would be probably do fine so long as they managed not to get themselves hit. T54 should be good too, esp if later ones/T55 with a fair few HEAT rounds in the locker.

Cheers
Andy

[Kenny]

Here's another twist to this scenario based on the year 1973. This time all M551 vehicles based on the CS version with no missles and no M106 SP mortars. These vehicles afford no protection of any kind if hit by main gun fire,so use the "shoot and scoot" principle to try and protect them. Their advantage of speed needs to be exploited. In reality the Sheridan was to be used with the "defense in depth" approach if the balloon ever went up. Give ground to the approaching Warsaw Pact vehicles,manuever into a good position for a killing shot,and then get out of Dodge ASAP. Repeat as long as you can survive.

My vehicle(Fox16) could do 62 mph flatout on the autobahn. I'm just having a bit of fun here trying to fathom how effective these little rascals might have been on the offensive,as in an emergency counter attack in trying to take these 3 positions.

[Aeraaa]

@MObhack, I doubt even post '68 tanks are invurnerable to Panther's cannon. To my dismay, I've learned that an early era M1 can be killed by close range flank shots from a Zsu-57, so Panther should have a chance (REALLY small, but still a chance...)

[gila]

Originally Posted by Aeraaa

@MObhack, I doubt even post '68 tanks are invurnerable to Panther's cannon. To my dismay, I've learned that an early era M1 can be killed by close range flank shots from a Zsu-57, so Panther should have a chance (REALLY small, but still a chance...)

Depends if the panthers move fast and expose themselves to such SPAT's,,if they hold still or move slowly useing the reverse slope "pop up tatic" they can get alot shots in and still have enough MP's to scoot if needed.

You should use your infranty guarding your armor, to spot those pests.

Btw an M1 is far superior to a panther with much discussion needed.

[Kenny]

Originally Posted by Aeraaa

@MObhack, I doubt even post '68 tanks are invurnerable to Panther's cannon. To my dismay, I've learned that an early era M1 can be killed by close range flank shots from a Zsu-57, so Panther should have a chance (REALLY small, but still a chance...)

I'd say a Panthers chance of a frontal kill at over 750 meters against an M60A1 is between exceedingly slim and next to none,with slim pulling away from the dock. The L/71 from the Tiger II had little to no effect against these same tanks shooting from 1000 meters of more. In the first scenario I modified,it was pretty much of a turkey shoot. The defense factor of 26 for the front of the hull and turret seems to be key here. I tried this scenario 3 times and the results were uniformly one sided on behalf of the M60A1.

Keep your distance and it's a slaughter.

[Kenny]

One last try at modifying this excellent scenario by Andy. This one is a lot closer to his original Zombies in terms of main gun tubes by the U.S Army. M1128's with the 105 M68 98 cannon,with infantry support from M1126 Strykers and Stryker squads,minus their the Javelin missle system.

Only 17 main guns in this attempt,plus 2 M60A3 vehicles coming in reserve in turn 5(I never used them). I got a marginal victory as the U.S.,4256 to the Zombies 1039. The scenario ended during turn 5,I lost 2 1126 Strykers and had the main gun disabled on two M1128 vehicles. The Zombies had practically all of their fleet destroyed.

[Aeraaa]

I made a quick encyclopedia search to see if Germans have a fighting chance. Since I havent installed WinSPWW2 yet, I've used the Italian Pantera and the French Jagdpanther as reference, so you can correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway the best chance of penetration by Panther is 23cm of armor at point blank range with APCR. For the 88 best penetration is achieved again by the APCR round and its 28cm. So keeping that in mind:

-T55A is vulnerable at all sides if at point blank range from both 75mm and 88mm (depends on the angle though, since the best armor has the exact same value as max penetration).

-Centurion Mk 5/1 is vulnerable if a turret hit, but frontal hull can only be penetrated by the 88.

-Same thing with T62, only here the frontal hull is also highly resistant to the 88 as well.

-M60A1 is invulnerable to the 75mm, not from 88mm though.

-AMX30 and Leo 1A1 are vulnerable from both guns.

-M1 is invulnerable from Panther guns if hit in the turret either from frontal or flanking shots. So best bet is hull hits (or lucky side shots in the turret).

-T64A is invulnerable from both guns (maybe the 88 could achieve a penetration if extremely lucky), but much more fragile at the flanks and rear.

-Chieftain is invulnerable from the front, and very resistant at the side turret.

So that's the chances Jerries have (obviously more modern tanks are even better). IMHO, the biggest problem they have is the inaccuracy of their guns than penetrating power. I think it would be much more interesting if player actually had Germans and the AI the modern force instead of vice versa.