Rifle/SMG Effective Range

Gerry1 · #1 October 17th, 2017, 02:06 AM

I know that the Kar 98k Rifle has a range of 500m and a HE Kill of 1. Is there any way to determine what is a maximum "best" range for it to engage, i.e. before accuracy drops off too much? Same for say a Russian SMG unit. I know in general the rifle squad would have an advantage at a distance.

There is an AP Penetration Calculator that shows values in 50m aliquots. Not sure is there anything like that for rifles, etc. firing on infantry.

Thanks.

DRG · #2 October 17th, 2017, 02:19 AM

Rifle/SMG Effectiveness is more a factor of your units experience and morale ( + suppression and damage ) and that of the enemy unit you are firing at.

Better units in good shape hit better than poor ones in poor shape

Gerry1 · #3 October 17th, 2017, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG

Rifle/SMG Effectiveness is more a factor of your units experience and morale ( + suppression and damage ) and that of the enemy unit you are firing at.

Better units in good shape hit better than poor ones in poor shape

I understand but let me ask in a different/better way and I am assuming that the weapons can fire farther than the listed range in the Encyclopedia.

So the Kar. 98k has a range of 500m and the PPSH has a range of 150.

All other things such as morale being equal if the German Rifle squad stayed over 150m away they should have the edge right? Not looking for a percentage.

Thanks.

RightDeve · #4 October 17th, 2017, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerry1

.....
All other things such as morale being equal if the German Rifle squad stayed over 150m away they should have the edge right? Not looking for a percentage.

Thanks.

Yes. You can try this yourself, the PPSh won't be able to fire at the rifle squad due to insufficient range.

Gerry1 · #5 October 18th, 2017, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RightDeve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerry1

.....
All other things such as morale being equal if the German Rifle squad stayed over 150m away they should have the edge right? Not looking for a percentage.

Thanks.

Yes. You can try this yourself, the PPSh won't be able to fire at the rifle squad due to insufficient range.

I was trying to set up a few such units in a Battle and I couldn't find a SMG company or Platoon. Did I miss them or is it just a case of they were just a part of a Rifle platoon for example?

I did find Scouts that has the PPShs.

Thanks.

RightDeve · #6 October 19th, 2017, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerry1

I was trying to set up a few such units in a Battle and I couldn't find a SMG company or Platoon. Did I miss them or is it just a case of they were just a part of a Rifle platoon for example?

I did find Scouts that has the PPShs.

Thanks.

Yes, scouts are one of them.
Try Guards units too. Or simply select any unit you like, and on the left hand side (of the purchase-screen), you can choose different weapon's composition for that unit. Here for example, for the same "Guards Section" unit, you can have four different flavors (unit's ability & weapon compositions):

Also try different date/year.
Make sure the visibility is also enough/greater than the maximum firing range.

Now, since you're experimenting with the range of the PPSh only, you must disable the other firearms for that unit (by left clicking on the firearm from the unit info screen i.e when you right click that unit on the battlefield; so now the firearm is listed blue/gray instead of yellow colored).

Griefbringer · #7 October 19th, 2017, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerry1

I was trying to set up a few such units in a Battle and I couldn't find a SMG company or Platoon. Did I miss them or is it just a case of they were just a part of a Rifle platoon for example?

What year was this? There are SMG companies and platoons in the Soviet OOB, but they only become available around 1942 or so (you can check the exact dates from Mobhack).

Historically, the pre-war Soviet doctrine did not consider SMG as a proper military weapon, and there were just a few thousand such weapons in the whole country. However, by the time Winter War was over the leadership had changed their mind, and Soviet industry started to design and produce SMGs - and as war progressed they were issued to infantry units in ever larger numbers.

Gerry1 · #8 October 17th, 2017, 02:20 AM

Well a search showed this from Wiki. Not sure how reliable it is but here are the values:
Maximum firing range‎: ‎4,700 m (5,140 yd) with ... Action‎: ‎Bolt-action
Effective firing range‎: ‎500 m (550 yd) with iron ... Barrel length‎: ‎600 mm (23.62 in)

So I guess the in-game Range value is the maximum effective range? (Not thinking about op-fire filtering or anything like that.)

troopie · #9 October 17th, 2017, 03:48 PM

Maximum firing range is how far the bullet will go. Soldiers in combat almost never try for maximum range. Bullets are light and the greater the distance the greater the deviation from the target.

troopie

scorpio_rocks · #10 October 17th, 2017, 09:15 PM

In game the range for small arms is a maximum - the Russian SMG unit cannot fire beyond their 150m range.

Effectiveness is not range based (only for AP weapons) but linked to experience and morale of firer and target, suppression, etc.

In a Infantry Vs Infantry fight, if you are in range - blaze away, at worst you should at least suppress the enemy a little to diminish the effectiveness of their return fire.