Defeating the Talisman

[Undertakr]

In our current game we just saw the unthinkable, one race had 80 dreadnaughts (all phased V) and 4 fully loaded carriers of fighters against 32 dreadnaughts (all phased V) with talisman and the talisman race won and still had 21 ships left.

This caused the non-religious player to quit in a huff by surrendering to the race that was winning (not the race that kicked his butt) and exclaim, "It's impossible to beat the talisman! It's completely overpowered!"

So, I ask you minions of SE, how do you beat the Religious players and the dreaded Talisman? Prove our player wrong and that it can be done!

- Takr

[Phoenix-D]

I smashed two homeworlds of a Talisman equiped player recently. One was guarded by a single DN and attacked by around 8 Meson V BattleCruisers, the other was guarded by three DNs and assulted by a 37-ship fleet of BCs, two carriers, and assorted missile-carrying LCs. The Talisman DNs were armed with APB X to XII, defended with decent ECM, armor III, stealth armor, scattering armor.

I lost a total of three ships to that fighting. Key advantages here: he was using armor, I had shields. *Phased* shields, so even if he had PPBs I would have been ahead. I had good sensors, so I hit him enough.

It can be done; but going up against a Talisman equipped fleet WITHOUT good sensors and good fleet experience is going to be ridicilously painful; you need to be able to hit him reliably. Nothing else matters. Skip the ECM, leave the scattering and stealth and home. If all else fails and you can't seem to hit enough, build ramming ships and missile ships. They never miss, and can withstand enough damage on the way in to give the missile ships a break. Stay out of his range, and remember that if you can get through the PDC fire, seekers won't miss.

If you need a direct-fire weapon, consider the Wave Motion Gun. +30% to hit.

You also have 1500 racial points, and 40kt over him. *Use it*.

Phoenix-D

[Grandpa Kim]

Here's another thread on this subject.
The unbeatable combination

I haven't had my morning coffee yet, so I will grumpily point out that your friend won't learn one damn thing more from that game now that he's withdrawn.

[geoschmo]

Well said Grandpa Kim, well said.

Undertakr, tell your friend that numerical advantage is no guarantee of sucess in SEIV. I have been in this community a long time and have played a lot of games. I have seen lopsided battle results such as you describe and worse where neither player had the Tailsman.

To beat the player using the Tailsman, you find his weakness and exploit it. Every player has a weakness. And if he doesn't have a weakness he would beat you anyway without the tailsman.

Tailsman has been very in vouge lately in PBW games. Partly becasue there has been all this talk about it being unbeatable. As more people use it, more people will learn ways to deal with it, and there are ways to deal with it. And as players using Tailsman start getting ganged up on and knocked out of games early and often, they will stop using the Tailsman.

The Deeply Relgious advanced Racial trait will soon become a great big target hanging around the neck of any player who chooses to use it.

Geoschmo

[DavidG]

Although I've never had a big battle against the talisman 80 vs 32 and losing sounds like something else may have contributed too. Like maybe the level of armour, shields, sensors etc. Could 32 talisman DN's beat 80 idendtical non talisman DN's with the highest possible combat sensors?

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by DavidG:
Although I've never had a big battle against the talisman 80 vs 32 and losing sounds like something else may have contributed too. Like maybe the level of armour, shields, sensors etc. Could 32 talisman DN's beat 80 idendtical non talisman DN's with the highest possible combat sensors?

Possibly David G, I'd have to run some tests, if the non-trailsman player was using optimal range or something like that for a strategy. One of the biggest keys to beating a tailsman player in a battle is to change your ships strategy to point blank. This helps overcome the advantage of the Tailsman never missing because your ships will almost never miss at point blank assumning they have decent Combat sensors and or experience. This will allow roughly equal weapons tech and greater numbers to overcome the Tailsman equiped race. But you are going to take a beating. You have be prepared for that going in.

Geoschmo