Pay again for SE4, Yes!

[Tenryu]

I think the continued support of SE4 from both Shrapnel and Malfador is outstanding. I couldn't recommend a game more then this. Never, except for "Stars!", {pre-Empire), have I experienced anything like the ongoing support and refinement of a piece of game software.

The Mod community here is awesome also. Your work is truely excellent and divers.

I'd pay another $25-50 dollars this year or next if Malfador came out with an expansion that only included a planetary level tactical ground combat add-on.

Heck, I'd pay you just to keep up doing what you have been doing.

Thanks
Thought this should be said.

[Gandalph]

Originally posted by Tenryu:
I think the continued support of SE4 from both Shrapnel and Malfador is outstanding. I couldn't recommend a game more then this. Never, except for "Stars!", {pre-Empire), have I experienced anything like the ongoing support and refinement of a piece of game software.

The Mod community here is awesome also. Your work is truely excellent and divers.

I'd pay another $25-50 dollars this year or next if Malfador came out with an expansion that only included a planetary level tactical ground combat add-on.

Heck, I'd pay you just to keep up doing what you have been doing.

Thanks
Thought this should be said.

Send your dollars to PBW. It could always use the help as it does not charge for Online play.

[Tenryu]

Gandolf,
I'm sure it's a fine service, but I never use it.

I don't even know where to go because I never was interested enough to look.

I assume PBW=Play By Web.

I never have used because I doubt I'd ever have the time, the Last year has been a B-load of problems for me.

I'd more likely just pissoff the other players because I'd have to bailout before we finished and breaking obligations to others is something I generally try not to do.

Besides which, the TDM ModPak whoops my butt most of the time unless I get a very lucky start, nice planets and distant enemies, or really give myself some other significant edge, so I suppose I am sucky player.

I love the game, however, I take it with me all the time to use on my laptop when away from home on business or vacation. I've played it on land, in the air, on the sea, and underground{a nice quite finished basement, that counts, right?}. Not yet undersea, or in space, but I would, if could. LOL!

[couslee]

Not meaning to throw rotten apple in salad, but isn't that what SEIV gold was? I am glad you have been enjoying the game for so long. SEIV was released in what, 2000. and SEIV Gold in mid-02. If I had to buy an expansion pack this soon after getting the game, I would be a little annoyed. Of course, that would depend on what it had in it.

The compaines that use expansion packs for gutting the gamers wallet piss me off. For example, Firaxis came out with an expansion pack for SMAC, and it included a lot of bug fixes still found in the original (patched) Version. So if you wanted those bugs fixed, you had to buy the expansion because they would not make a final patch for the un-expanded game that fixed the bugs addressed in the expansion. That pissed me of when they did that, and I refused to buy the expansion because of it. If I don't want to get and expansion because I enjoy the game the way it is, then bugs should be fixed via patch without the new features included in an expansion. (hope I am not being confusing)

If Shrapnel pulled a "furaxis" I would apply the same "boycott". Other than that, an expansion would be nice if it included enough new features, and I would get it, even tho I only recently bought the game.

Features like an "patrol/intercept" command, being able to select a specific number of units instead of the 5/10/15/20 set-up it has now (might want to only build 8 of an item), more specific lists, or filters in the planet window, a Delete design option. ect...

[Pax]

Originally posted by couslee:
The compaines that use expansion packs for gutting the gamers wallet piss me off. For example, Firaxis came out with an expansion pack for SMAC, and it included a lot of bug fixes still found in the original (patched) Version. So if you wanted those bugs fixed, you had to buy the expansion because they would not make a final patch for the un-expanded game that fixed the bugs addressed in the expansion. That pissed me of when they did that, and I refused to buy the expansion because of it.

More the fool you -- no offense -- but SMAX (the expansion you mention) has a lot more than a few bugfixes (balance issues, really).

It also had a tone of new features -- armor types, a couple weapons, a few special abilities for units, several base facilities, more than a couple secret projects, the number of factions doubled, and for two of the factions, a whole new victory condition. And that's just the short Version.

If I don't want to get and expansion because I enjoy the game the way it is, then bugs should be fixed via patch without the new features included in an expansion. (hope I am not being confusing)

In fact, frankly I can't think of a single BUG fix that was aprt of the Alien Crossfire expansion for SMAC. Could you name, oh, up to three of 'em for me?

SMAX was an expansion pack done right (unlike Firaxis' more recent xpac, Civ3:PTW, which is pure gimme-yer-money-you-morons corporate screwage). I've lent my copy out, and playig just SMAC itself just doesn't do anything for me anymore. No SMAX = not playing the game, for me at least.

[couslee]

I have not played SMAC for a while now and would have to go back and hunt old threads for a longer list, but I can give you one right off the top of my head.

The "golden age" didn't work right in smac for morgan or the hive. this was fixed in smax. there was not patch made available for plain smac players that fixed that bug. That is a major bug, as it severly handicapped those two factions. Yes, smacx added a lot of new features, but firaxis gave the left hand of fellowship and a one finger bird to it's customers would either wouldn't or couldn't get the expansion. I don't have to give 3 examples, one will do when it is a major one. They found the problem and fixed it, then sold with fix with new features. IMO that stunk. because of that, and no demo, I decided to wait on civ3. I am glad I did. They followed the same trend with civ3. crappy half-a-game release, expansion sold to fix and include features that should have been included in the first release. Also of note, is the time frame between the first release of Civ3 and the expansion. They took a game, and split it into two parts, and sold each part. It's a ****ty thing for a game company to do. And I am not the only one who feels this way. (about SMAC+SMACX and CIV3+PTW).

That is one of the things I am most impressed with about SEIV, is even after all this time, they still stand behind their product.

edit in:
and no offence was taken. But their is a big difference between being a fool, and righteous indignation. I will not reward a company with my money when it treats it's customer base so poorly, even if the SMACX expansion was the greatest thing since peanut butter.

edit edit in: (god I hate when I get late thoughts in such a manner). You state it included not only bug fixes, but a lot of balancing issues. you admit right there SAMC needed repair not only to fix bugs, but because it was unbalanced, which is another thing patches are suppose to fix. Expansions than add new features, factions, special projects and the like are fine. Bug fixes and balancing issuse can be included on the xpack cd, but should also be made available to the first release players. Look at all the PBEM games that were going when they released SMACX. Those games were stuck with the bugs and unbalanced things and firaxis basicly said TFB to you.
They saw they could get away with it, and as a result, the game community got what they did with Civ3. I was playing SMAC when the only thing available was the demo and saw the trend develop. So if I had gone ahead and bought Civ3 on release, only then would I have been the fool.

[ February 02, 2003, 00:52: Message edited by: couslee ]

[Fyron]

Yeah, civ3 is a big scam. The expansion still doesn't even make it a very good game. It still has all of the major flaws of the original release.

[Crossfire]

I agree that in many cases computer software companies are shooting us in the butt by making us pay full price again for an expansion/new Version that in many cases should have been free or at a discount.

Thats the nice thing about the internet and having access to forums like this one. We have the ability to check out the past history of a software company and hear other people's opinions about a product before we spend the money on that new expansion they are trying to get us to buy. I have been around long enough to remember when we didn't.

[Tenryu]

My point was that Malfador and Shrapnel have acted very differently from what seems to have become standard practice in the entertainment software industry.

The computer game industry regards the software it pumps out in much the same way as movie house does its movies. Get'um out the door, ASAP, on budget, get your money, { Yes! Yours}, in the first few weeks or months then, forgeddabowdit.

"Bugs! Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll get ya one or two patches ta shut ya up. Just wait until ya buy the next Version! You'll love it! It'll be way better.
You'll cream for it."

I am not saying this is wrong, just making an observation.

On the other hand, there still are a few odd companies that regard their software as PRODUCTS, products to be developed and improved and refined based on feedback from their customers, rather then merely "events".

Malfador and Shrapnel both seem to fall into that less common catagory. I like that.

I am,therefore, not opposed to rewarding them with more of my hard earned dollars if they continue to do this.

Whether or not it's via an "expansion" of SE4 or SE5, I'll buy it.

I'm probably going to buy Malfadors dungeon crawl also. The only thing that's been holding that purchase off is I didn't have time to allocate to playing it. When that changes, and it will, I'll order it.

Yes, I am a very satisfied customer. I have spent more play time and feel I have received more value for dollar from the SE4 product then any other game-event I've purchased in the Last 3 to 5 years.

[oleg]

I am with Pax, Smax was a very good expansion pack. As to unfixed bugs, even SEIV has such an example:
If you are annoyed by "game unbalancing" OA preregeneration from turn 1, you MUST buy Gold, there is no fix for regular SE. So, does that mean MM pulled "furaxis" ? No !!