AI DEATH MATCH 2

[Master Belisarius]

Two fast games:

Drakol vs Earth Alliance.
The EA won at the turn 180.
Link: Drakol_vs_EA_A5.zip

Corrian vs CueCappa.
The CueCappa won at the turn 180
Link: Corrian_vs_A5.zip

[Rexxx]

Just to get things straight:
The "colonizer dead ends" are a known - yet unsolved - issue.
The colony bug Master Belisarius described is new and it's a quite nasty one.

[Master Belisarius]

Two more games.

Toltayan vs Aquilaeian.
The Aquilaeian won at the turn 167.

Link:
Toltayan_vs_Aquilaeian_A6.zip

Gron vs Azorani.
The Gron won at the turn 470.

Link: Gron_vs_Azorani_A6.zip (A big file!)

[ March 04, 2003, 22:58: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

[Master Belisarius]

And two more...

Namovans vs Vikings.
The Vikings defeated the Namovans before the turn 190.

And here the link: Namovans_vs_Vikings_A7.zip

Shadows vs Tessellate.
The Tessellate defeted the Shadows fast, at the turn 166.
Because the Shadows use ships without shields (or low on it) but strong in Organic Armors, had not way to stop the Tessellate's weapons + the Talisman...

The link: Shadows_vs_Tessellate_A7.zip

[ March 05, 2003, 01:10: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

[Master Belisarius]

Rage vs Toron.

It was one of the best games of this contest, IMHO.

The Rage used their heavy arsenal, and destroyed the stars in 3 Toron systems, and created a Black Hole in other 2...
The Rage won at the turn 191.

Here the link: Rage_vs_Toron_A8.zip

[oleg]

Originally posted by Rexxx:
Just to get things straight:
The "colonizer dead ends" are a known - yet unsolved - issue.
The colony bug Master Belisarius described is new and it's a quite nasty one.

It MAY be related to one known problem:

For example, you have several "attack ship" designs in "AI_design.txt" file. Now, if you call for "attack ship" in "creation_vehicles.txt" txt file, AI will build only the design it first encounter - the one closeset to the begining of design.txt file.

The same could happen with colonizers. If you have:
Colony Rock
...
Colony Ice
...
Colony Gas
...
in design.txt file, AI will build only Rock colony ships ! I know it should not happen - AI treats colonizers differently than other ships, but it still can happen. "colonizer dead ends" is a very good example ! I suggest to reorganize design.txt file. For example Rock races should have Rock colonizers at the bottom. May be it will help.

[Rexxx]

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
Rage vs Toron.
The Rage used their heavy arsenal, and destroyed the stars in 3 Toron systems, and created a Black Hole in other 2...

That's interesting. In v.1.78 (turn based games) I never get the Inverted Quantum Beam to work. The destroy star ships always did what they were designed for but never the create black hole ships. Have to try it again.

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by oleg:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rexxx:
Just to get things straight:
The "colonizer dead ends" are a known - yet unsolved - issue.
The colony bug Master Belisarius described is new and it's a quite nasty one.

It MAY be related to one known problem:

For example, you have several "attack ship" designs in "AI_design.txt" file. Now, if you call for "attack ship" in "creation_vehicles.txt" txt file, AI will build only the design it first encounter - the one closeset to the begining of design.txt file.

The same could happen with colonizers. If you have:
Colony Rock
...
Colony Ice
...
Colony Gas
...
in design.txt file, AI will build only Rock colony ships ! I know it should not happen - AI treats colonizers differently than other ships, but it still can happen. "colonizer dead ends" is a very good example ! I suggest to reorganize design.txt file. For example Rock races should have Rock colonizers at the bottom. May be it will help.

---

I don't think this is the reason. For example check the Aquilaeian vs Gron game (long file to download!). For more than 100 turns, the Aquilaeian built only ICE colonies... and the ICE colonies were in middle between Rock and Gas designes...

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by Rexxx:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
Gron vs Azorani.
The Gron won at the turn 470.

Well, after checking the Gron savegames I have to say again how helpful for me this contest is.
From time to time (every second or third turn) the Gron think of a LC equipped with CSMs as their best short range attack ship (I guess due to a lousy oversight in the design-file). Not the smartest thing a talisman race can do in mid- and endgame when they can have a DN coming with TKPs and the Talisman.

---

I saw this problem with most of the modded AI races...

In other of my Posts on this topic, I wrote the work-around that in my view fix this problem (talking about the problem with the Sergetti's ships).
When does exist several ship designes with different sizes, at some point, the AI start to rebuild their ships using small designes (old designes!).
This start to occur (at least in the cases that I knew), after some time the AI reach the DN size. But think in some way is also related to the weapon that currently is using for the DN.
An example, the Tessellate attack ships.
As most the modders, I did different attack ships, depending of the ship size. Here the DN main design.

Name := Attack Ship
Design Type := Attack Ship
Vehicle Type := Ship
Default Strategy := Maximum Weapons Range
Size Minimum Tonnage := 801
Size Maximum Tonnage := 5000
Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 2
Must Have Ability 1 := Weapons Always Hit
Must Have Ability 2 := Quantum Reactor
Minimum Speed := 4
Desired Speed := 6
Majority Weapon Family Pick 1 := 22
Majority Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 1 := 30
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0
Shields Spaces Per One := 250
Armor Spaces Per One := 10000
Majority Comp Spaces Per One := 200
Majority Comp Ability := Weapon
Secondary Comp Spaces Per One := 200
Secondary Comp Ability := Weapon
Num Misc Abilities := 7
Misc Ability 1 Name := Cloak Level
Misc Ability 1 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 2 Name := Combat To Hit Defense Plus
Misc Ability 2 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 3 Name := Point-Defense
Misc Ability 3 Spaces Per One := 250
Misc Ability 4 Name := Self-Destruct
Misc Ability 4 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 5 Name := Multiplex Tracking
Misc Ability 5 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 6 Name := Extra Movement Generation
Misc Ability 6 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 7 Name := Point-Defense
Misc Ability 7 Spaces Per One := 10000

The weapon "30" is the Shard Cannon.
Well, time in time, after start to build these designes, the AI decided to re-create their attack ships... and had not better idea than build an old CR design, that used their Crystalline Armors and Napal Bombs as weapon... Here is:

Name := Attack Ship
Design Type := Attack Ship
Vehicle Type := Ship
Default Strategy := Ram
Size Minimum Tonnage := 401
Size Maximum Tonnage := 500
Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 1
Must Have Ability 1 := Shield Generation From Damage
Minimum Speed := 4
Desired Speed := 6
Majority Weapon Family Pick 1 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 1 := 13
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0
Shields Spaces Per One := 250
Armor Spaces Per One := 0
Majority Comp Spaces Per One := 80
Majority Comp Ability := Shield Generation From Damage
Secondary Comp Spaces Per One := 10000
Secondary Comp Ability := Weapon
Num Misc Abilities := 5
Misc Ability 1 Name := Quantum Reactor
Misc Ability 1 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 2 Name := Combat To Hit Defense Plus
Misc Ability 2 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 3 Name := Supply Storage
Misc Ability 3 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 4 Name := Point-Defense
Misc Ability 4 Spaces Per One := 250
Misc Ability 5 Name := Self-Destruct
Misc Ability 5 Spaces Per One := 10000

Why use this old CR design and at least, don't use the other BC or BB availabe ship designes????

I had an idea: did a paste of the original DN two times, with the idea that maybe the AI could use the second design (that was the same than the first of course!), instead the CR. I was wrong...
Then, remembered that the Pyrochette never had this problem... and remembered that them used 2 kind of DN ships with different weapons.
With this idea, I did a new try: designed a new DN that use the other Crystalline Weapon (can't remember the name... I don't like so much this weapon!!), their weapon family is 31.
This thing fixed the problem!!!!!! The Tessellate started to rotate their ship designes, using the original DN with shard cannon during some time, and time in time, designed the DN with the other weapon as main attack ship.

I had the same problem with the auxiliary ships: Support, Offensive sweepers, troop transport, and even with units. Using the same idea (designes with different weapons for the DN ships), never had again this problem.
IT WORKED TO ME... and think should work to everybody!!!
Hope it will help to create more strong AIs!

[Rexxx]

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rexxx:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
Gron vs Azorani.
The Gron won at the turn 470.

Well, after checking the Gron savegames I have to say again how helpful for me this contest is.
From time to time (every second or third turn) the Gron think of a LC equipped with CSMs as their best short range attack ship (I guess due to a lousy oversight in the design-file). Not the smartest thing a talisman race can do in mid- and endgame when they can have a DN coming with TKPs and the Talisman.

---

I saw this problem with most of the modded AI races...

In other of my Posts on this topic, I wrote the work-around that in my view fix this problem (talking about the problem with the Sergetti's ships).
When does exist several ship designes with different sizes, at some point, the AI start to rebuild their ships using small designes (old designes!).
This start to occur (at least in the cases that I knew), after some time the AI reach the DN size. But think in some way is also related to the weapon that currently is using for the DN.
An example, the Tessellate attack ships.
As most the modders, I did different attack ships, depending of the ship size. Here the DN main design.

Name := Attack Ship
Design Type := Attack Ship
Vehicle Type := Ship
Default Strategy := Maximum Weapons Range
Size Minimum Tonnage := 801
Size Maximum Tonnage := 5000
Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 2
Must Have Ability 1 := Weapons Always Hit
Must Have Ability 2 := Quantum Reactor
Minimum Speed := 4
Desired Speed := 6
Majority Weapon Family Pick 1 := 22
Majority Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 1 := 30
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0
Shields Spaces Per One := 250
Armor Spaces Per One := 10000
Majority Comp Spaces Per One := 200
Majority Comp Ability := Weapon
Secondary Comp Spaces Per One := 200
Secondary Comp Ability := Weapon
Num Misc Abilities := 7
Misc Ability 1 Name := Cloak Level
Misc Ability 1 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 2 Name := Combat To Hit Defense Plus
Misc Ability 2 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 3 Name := Point-Defense
Misc Ability 3 Spaces Per One := 250
Misc Ability 4 Name := Self-Destruct
Misc Ability 4 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 5 Name := Multiplex Tracking
Misc Ability 5 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 6 Name := Extra Movement Generation
Misc Ability 6 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 7 Name := Point-Defense
Misc Ability 7 Spaces Per One := 10000

The weapon "30" is the Shard Cannon.
Well, time in time, after start to build these designes, the AI decided to re-create their attack ships... and had not better idea than build an old CR design, that used their Crystalline Armors and Napal Bombs as weapon... Here is:

Name := Attack Ship
Design Type := Attack Ship
Vehicle Type := Ship
Default Strategy := Ram
Size Minimum Tonnage := 401
Size Maximum Tonnage := 500
Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 1
Must Have Ability 1 := Shield Generation From Damage
Minimum Speed := 4
Desired Speed := 6
Majority Weapon Family Pick 1 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 1 := 13
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0
Shields Spaces Per One := 250
Armor Spaces Per One := 0
Majority Comp Spaces Per One := 80
Majority Comp Ability := Shield Generation From Damage
Secondary Comp Spaces Per One := 10000
Secondary Comp Ability := Weapon
Num Misc Abilities := 5
Misc Ability 1 Name := Quantum Reactor
Misc Ability 1 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 2 Name := Combat To Hit Defense Plus
Misc Ability 2 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 3 Name := Supply Storage
Misc Ability 3 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 4 Name := Point-Defense
Misc Ability 4 Spaces Per One := 250
Misc Ability 5 Name := Self-Destruct
Misc Ability 5 Spaces Per One := 10000

Why use this old CR design and at least, don't use the other BC or BB availabe ship designes????

I had an idea: did a paste of the original DN two times, with the idea that maybe the AI could use the second design (that was the same than the first of course!), instead the CR. I was wrong...
Then, remembered that the Pyrochette never had this problem... and remembered that them used 2 kind of DN ships with different weapons.
With this idea, I did a new try: designed a new DN that use the other Crystalline Weapon (can't remember the name... I don't like so much this weapon!!), their weapon family is 31.
This thing fixed the problem!!!!!! The Tessellate started to rotate their ship designes, using the original DN with shard cannon during some time, and time in time, designed the DN with the other weapon as main attack ship.

I had the same problem with the auxiliary ships: Support, Offensive sweepers, troop transport, and even with units. Using the same idea (designes with different weapons for the DN ships), never had again this problem.
IT WORKED TO ME... and think should work to everybody!!!
Hope it will help to create more strong AIs!

---

Very interesting approach.
My guess was the "design switching" came from using different weapons (smaller Gron ships use CSM, larger TKP). I think I can get rid of it by using a CSM as second Majority weapon pick and TKP as first one (for all ships). One more thing to be checked.
So far I never saw it with ships which used everytime the same weapon. Maybe I just never realized this behaviour. Good to know that you find a workaround. A workaround which is harder to achieve for "normal" races than for "special" races whose weapon research led to several different weapons simultaneously. Anyway, the main thing is that there is a workaround at all and that the Gron are a psychic race.