Atmosphere - Page 2

God Emperor · #11 January 31st, 2001, 01:11 AM

Str8_Gain, I second your comments. It would be nice to see atmospheric conVersion progressing. Same for conditions.....

Tomgs · #12 January 31st, 2001, 02:57 AM

There are no gas giant none pictures in the files so it can't change to what doesn't exist.

Drake · #13 January 31st, 2001, 05:21 AM

You can't have a gas giant without gas.

Cybes · #14 January 31st, 2001, 05:24 AM

given that scientistis think the core of jupiter (and therefore any other gas giant with similar atmospheric composition) is likely to be a diamond the size of earth, converting it to a vacuum should leave you with a small rocky world.

it should also ruin your economy, perhaps.

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"Just think of it as Evolution in action" - 'Oath of Fealty', by Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle.

Puke · #15 January 31st, 2001, 05:34 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Cybes:
given that scientistis think the core of jupiter (and therefore any other gas giant with similar atmospheric composition) is likely to be a diamond the size of earth, converting it to a vacuum should leave you with a small rocky world.

it should also ruin your economy, perhaps.

can you post a link to that info? it sort of dorks with how i understand elementary phisics, its been a while, but i thought i was paying attention.

that might be the case if all the carbon on jupiter wandered to the center, but even so i kinda thought things turned to liquid (mose dense state of matter) as it was compressed. man, i hate it when they release Version 2.0 of the universe just because sales on the first edition were dropping off, and all your knowledge goes out of date.

Cybes · #16 January 31st, 2001, 05:43 AM

sorry - can't so a link. the theory was postulated as long ago as Carl Sagan's "Cosmos" series. basically, though, you had the right idea in that free carbon migrates to the centre (being more dense).

firstly, some chemical reaction i can't remember offhand cracks free carbon off of methane, creating a carbon 'rain'. the carbon continues straight through the 'metallic' hydrogen liquid, and forms a solid core. the pressure and heat then convert it to diamond.

the theory only really 'works' for gas giants with a significant portion of methane, though.

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"Just think of it as Evolution in action" - 'Oath of Fealty', by Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle.

Puke · #17 January 31st, 2001, 05:47 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Cybes:
firstly, some chemical reaction i can't remember offhand cracks free carbon off of methane, creating a carbon 'rain'. the carbon continues straight through the 'metallic' hydrogen liquid, and forms a solid core. the pressure and heat then convert it to diamond.

the theory only really 'works' for gas giants with a significant portion of methane, though.

um-kay. cool. but why would the carbon not liquify rather than crystalize? of course, presuming that the carbon 'rain' is more like carbon 'snow' or 'hail'

sorry, dont mean to be turning the thread into science class.

[This message has been edited by Puke (edited 31 January 2001).]

Cybes · #18 January 31st, 2001, 05:59 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Puke:
um-kay. cool. but why would the carbon not liquify rather than crystalize? of course, presuming that the carbon 'rain' is more like carbon 'snow' or 'hail'

well, i'd guess those terms are pretty equivalent, given that carbon doesn't seem to have a liquid form that we know of. it can be a gas in combination with other gasseous elements, but not by itself... pure carbon only does 'free' (like soot), 'graphite', or 'diamond' - as far as we know, of course.

as an aside, this theory was indirectly referenced in Arthur Clarke's "2015" (title?), after the jovian sun ignited, shards of the core diamond fell upon the surface of europa. a research ship then landed on the planet (for reasons i don''t remember), and there was some scene involving the greedier members of the crew rushing around collecting fragments.

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"Just think of it as Evolution in action" - 'Oath of Fealty', by Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle.

Puke · #19 January 31st, 2001, 08:05 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Cybes:
well, i'd guess those terms are pretty equivalent, given that carbon doesn't seem to have a liquid form that we know of. it can be a gas in combination with other gasseous elements, but not by itself... pure carbon only does 'free' (like soot), 'graphite', or 'diamond' - as far as we know, of course.

acording to the periodic table at
http://chemlab.pc.maricopa.edu/periodic/C.html

carbon has a melting point of 4100 Kelvins. I am not aware of any element without a melting point, although we dont have enough heat and pressure to melt carbon anywhere near the surface of the earth, i would not doubt the molten core would hit 4100K. much less jupiter. granted, its much harder to melt than say, PLUTONIUM (ironically, cubic zirconiums are harder to melt), and I dont mean to be an ***, but I am having a hard time with this theory.

woodelf · #20 January 31st, 2001, 01:32 PM

Quick question on Atmospheric Converters; is the time required the same for all size planets? Wouldn't it make sense for a Huge planet to take longer than a tiny moonish sized one? If this isn't happening now, could it be modded to happen? I'm not fresh on my atmospheric science, but that seems realistic.