Carrier fleets --- Strategic combat?

Jon Brave · #1 February 3rd, 2001, 04:33 PM

OK, what am I doing wrong? A prompt, simple response would be much appreciated.

I build carrier fleets: 1 carrier with fighters, several other ships, some with weapons. I attack, say, a planet with some defences and a ship. I press "Stratgic" combat. My carrier often gets killed, whether I win or not. When I press the replay, I see my carrier basically launches fighters then moves really close to planet, eventually gets zapped by weaps plats. The carrier seems to stick with the attack ships which move in, other supply ships etc. correctly get out of the way.

I have checked and my carriers' default strategy in Design menu is set to "Don't get hurt", like those ships which keep out of the way. I have also left the setting in Empire Strategies which says that Carriers "break formation" like, say, Colony ships. I have my fleet with, say, diamond formation with carrier as leader so it's in the centre. You don't seem to be able to get at an individual ship's strategy when it's in a fleet.

Basically I want my carrier to launch its fighters from afar, they go in with attack ships to attack enemy ships/planet while it stays back out of harm's way, like, say, a supply ship or mine sweeper. I (think) I know I can select Tactical combat, then perhaps break formation and make sure my carrier keeps back, but I want to be able to use Strategic combat. Can't I do this --- seems an obviously desirable strategy? Otherwise losing my carriers is costing too much.

Jubala · #2 February 3rd, 2001, 04:58 PM

As requested, a prompt simple response:

Don't have the Carrier as fleet leader.

Jon Brave · #3 February 3rd, 2001, 05:02 PM

Couldn't have asked for prompter!

Does your terse reply mean you actually know that's causing the problem, or is it just a guess? Will my carrier then keep itself out of harm's way? TVM.

Mako · #4 February 3rd, 2001, 09:18 PM

If your carrier has any weapons they could be makeing it get in close to the planet.

Jubala · #5 February 3rd, 2001, 09:20 PM

Always glad to please.

quote:
Originally posted by Jon Brave:
I have my fleet with, say, diamond formation with carrier as leader so it's in the centre.

You say here that you have the carrier as leader. That's why I said don't have the carrier as leader. You never want to put ships you don't want smack in the middle of the fight as leaders because that's where the leaders end up. At least in my experience with transports and fuelships. Try not having the carrier as leader and I think you'll see it doing exactly what you want seeing as how you have it set to break formation and all.

raynor · #6 February 3rd, 2001, 10:14 PM

In other topics, I've heard folks say that you shouldn't even put *any* weapons on your carrier. They report that putting even Point Defence Cannoncs on the Carrier makes the Carrier run right up next to the planet and try to destroy satellites? and such.

Noble713 · #7 February 3rd, 2001, 10:24 PM

raynor, I've noticed this as well. Any carrier carrying point defense ends up in the formation, while totally unarmed ships such as repair ships and transports aren't. The game doesn't seem to descriminate between point-defense and the more offensive weapons.

Tomgs · #8 February 4th, 2001, 02:26 AM

Also if you fire any missles I have noticed that a ship with point defence will rush toward you in tactical. In strategic I am sure the same happens. So any fleet with both missle and beam (or any ship with both for that matter) will make short work of any PD only ship.

Try throwing a couple heavy phased poleron beams on your Carrier even a light carrier is big enough for heavy mount weapons. That might be a surprise for anyone who likes to rush "unarmed" carriers. While you may not want to do this a lot because it eats up room for fighters it is a cheap and fast way to get heavy warships early.

[This message has been edited by Tomgs (edited 04 February 2001).]

Jon Brave · #9 February 4th, 2001, 01:18 PM

As ever, you guys are great.

I haven't yet had an opportunity to try not making the carrier the leader of my fleet (the theory was this was the only way I could be sure my other ships would surround it), but I will try this.

However, I think you people may be right about PD weapons. I put a couple on my carriers to protect from incoming fighters/seekers --- seemed a sensible precaution. I wonder if, as you say, it's deciding to close in on the planet because of these, whereas colony ships etc. have nothing. What a bummer! Can we please have the AI not count PDs as offensive weapons? If it turns out it's this and not the formation that's the cause, can I put anything on for defence?

While I'm here, I'd like to ask about simulating combat:

1. If I want to simulate *fleet* combat, I found I had to create a fleet from scratch (the "Fleets" button showed me my fleets but didn't let me select them for the simulator), and couldn't set its strategy and leader, so I couldn't test Jubala's theory. Is this true?

2. If I wanted to practice against a planet, I could only seem to pick my own planets and they were friendly and couldn't be made to belong the opposition?

TIA.