PBW Planet Colonization And Growth

Atrocities · #1 April 26th, 2003, 02:07 PM

Quote:

I am in a few games at PBW and have discovered that many players have already out colonized me by 10 to 1. In one game I have nearly 16 planets already, but have been given information that other players have far more. This alarms me as I am optimized for production and construction and have 10 shipyards producing colony ships.

My homeworld can produce a ship in 2 turns and I used it at the on set of the game to EB 10 shipyards. We are now into turn 30 and my ship yards have only turned out about 20 ships. Some are explore craft while others are colony ships.

What I do not understand is how these other players have out paced me in colonizing. Are they cheating?

I know that your busy and all, but I would really like to know what you do to rapidly colonize such as these players. I really need help, and any advise you can offer is greatly appreciated.

Thanks and good luck with your new projects.

I can't answer this because I to do not understand how people can amase so many planets in such a short amount of time.

Do any of you care to respond? I for one would love to know how to do some of the things that many of you do in PBW games.

[ April 26, 2003, 13:10: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Slynky · #2 April 26th, 2003, 02:24 PM

I think some call it leapfrog. The first colonies you settle build yards. Then they build ships and then those ships colonize and then those colonies build yards.

BTW, I'd never build 10 shipyards. Then, again, I'm certainly not the best player out there...

I think you get the point...

[ April 26, 2003, 13:26: Message edited by: Slynky ]

geoschmo · #3 April 26th, 2003, 03:32 PM

Ugh, the only thing worse then someone cheating, is someone being accused of cheating that hasn't done anything wrong.

My suggestion is instead of asking a bunch of other people how this person could possibly do this, why not simply ask the person how they did it? My experience is most players will give tips. Everybody likes to feel like they are good at something, and asking them for help will make them feel good as well as make you a better player.

Geoschmo

Slynky · #4 April 26th, 2003, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Ugh, the only thing worse then someone cheating, is someone being accused of cheating that hasn't done anything wrong.

Excellent point.

Quote:

Originally posted by geoschmo:
My suggestion is instead of asking a bunch of other people how this person could possibly do this, why not simply ask the person how they did it? My experience is most players will give tips. Everybody likes to feel like they are good at something, and asking them for help will make them feel good as well as make you a better player.

In this regard, I owe Asmala a big debt!

He spent a lot of time giving advice. And all I did was ask.

geoschmo · #5 April 26th, 2003, 03:53 PM

But more specifically, Slynky is right. The key to rapid expansion is to get the new colonies producing new colony ships as soon as possible. There are not a lot of things you can do in the first 10 turns to get a huge lead. At the end of ten pretty much everybody will have close to the same number of planets, assuming a roughly equal start. But the fast expander will put those colonies to use building space yards and colony ships instead of research and resource facs.

Here's how it works:

At turn 10 the F.E. player has maybe a couple more colonies then you and maybe 2 or 3 space yards while you have one, maybe 2 space yards. Doesn't seem like a big deal since we are only talking about a couple planets. But that's a 60% increase over your rate. If that holds over time, and it will, you will be way behind.

At turn 20 the difference starts to be noticable. The F.E. has close to 20 planets. You might have 15 and probably don't think you are that far behind, but you are way behind in truth. The F.E. player has 8 to 10 space yards on his 20 planets, some of which are already building colony ships. You might have 3 or 4 yards on your 15 planets. You are in trouble and don't even know it.

How does he afford this? Well, honestly you can't have everything. If you look at all the numbers he is probably behind you in research points right now. Also he's probebly built some mineral faciliites on planets with 75 to 80% minerals. Something you wouldn't even consider doing. Also he likely hasn't built a single ship that isn't a colony ship or a population transport. He does his reconasance with his colony ships. He also might have to put queus on hold form time to time, but that's ok. Even with partial queues runing he is outbuilding you.

If you happened to show up in his homesystem right now he'd be toast. But you wont, because his space is twice or three times the size of yours by now. Everywhere you look along the borders you find more of his planets and colony ships. You naturally assume this guy is not someone to mess with, so you don't even try. And if you do he's got a lot of space he can trade for time to prepare his defenses. By the time you can assemble your fleet he can put a swarm of destroyers in your path. Even if they are lower tech they are going to chew you up and make any victories very expensive. Keep in mind this is turn 20, so your tech ain't all that either.

By turn 30 he has twice the number of planets you do and is building 4 times the number of colony ships. Also he's catching up in tech because he can devote more to research. And his resource problems have all but dried up. Having planets to burn will do that for you.

By turn 40 he has four times the number of planets you do and is building six times as many colony ships cause he is still making space yards.

From then on it just gets ugly. You are playing a different game then he is. He has you beat in every statistical Category, most of them by a large margin. You can either become his vassal if he wants you, or you can try to make an alliance with the other empires to put a stop to him before he swallows you all up. But it isn't gonna be easy. Noone is going to believe he is all that big this early in the game cause they don't share a border with him like you do. They will figure he is jsut the phantom bad guy you are using to scare them. And he will feed into that of course and buy off their allegience and you might end up being on the wrong end of the alliance.

Better luck next time.

Geoschmo

Gryphin · #6 April 26th, 2003, 04:18 PM

I believe Fyron, tesco, and Rollo showed me how to expand.
Turns 1 through 5
Home worlds use Emergency Build to build Base Space Yards
The Base Space Yards are then set to Emergency Build colony ships.
by Turn 5 you have researched Propulsion III, and either Research II or Ship Yard II or ....

If I have researched Research then I upgrade my Research Facs on Emergency build.
If I researched Ship Yards I end Emergency build
Upgrade Planet shipyards and Base Space Yards when as the ques empty.

You have to watch your resources very closely or you will most likely run out of Rads and maybe Mins.

Note: I only play against the AI these days. There are a lot of variables here.

Atrocities · #7 April 26th, 2003, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Ugh, the only thing worse then someone cheating, is someone being accused of cheating that hasn't done anything wrong.

My suggestion is instead of asking a bunch of other people how this person could possibly do this, why not simply ask the person how they did it? My experience is most players will give tips. Everybody likes to feel like they are good at something, and asking them for help will make them feel good as well as make you a better player.

Geoschmo

Geo I think he is asking because he doesn't think they are cheating and just wants to know how they do it.

And thank you all for replying. I have emailed him back with a link to this thread.

geoschmo · #8 April 26th, 2003, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Geo I think he is asking because he doesn't think they are cheating and just wants to know how they do it.

I am sure you are correct. However, what to the speaker sounds like a harmless question, "Are they cheating?" to the person in question and to others uninvolved can sound very much like an accusation. Once it's out there it's hard to take back. I would just encourage you friends to choose their words carefully is all. The mere suggestion of cheating is taken very seriously.

Geoschmo

Slynky · #9 April 26th, 2003, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geoschmo:

quote:
Originally posted by Atrocities:
Geo I think he is asking because he doesn't think they are cheating and just wants to know how they do it.

I am sure you are correct. However, what to the speaker sounds like a harmless question, "Are they cheating?" to the person in question and to others uninvolved can sound very much like an accusation. Once it's out there it's hard to take back. I would just encourage you friends to choose their words carefully is all. The mere suggestion of cheating is taken very seriously.

Geoschmo

Words well spoken. There was a moment in a KOTH game where that "water was disturbed" but both players involved calmed those "waters" before it got to be really bad "weather". (OK, OK, pardon my literary skills

)

Sometimes, our egos get the best of us and we think, "I am a great player! If I am getting beat, the other person MUST be cheating."

Sometimes, we play and beat the heck out of the AI and then we decide we are good and join a few PBW matches. THEN, we play against people who REALLY know some tricks! And sometimes, our egos get in the way again.

Sometimes, good players play against good players and some have a good planetary distribution and others don't. Sometimes, THAT is the way people move ahead really fast. Usually, really good players know that is what's happening, though.

But Geo said it well. Think very hard before you post a message and make a comment that sounds like you believe someone is cheating. I don't think ANYONE wants to have a reputation like that following them around.

Karibu · #10 April 26th, 2003, 07:15 PM

In one PBW game I did as follows:

I had 3 starting planets and full tech so it made my choices simpler (all home planets had level 3 resource productioon facilities so there was no shortage of the resources first). First 10 turns I emergency built 10 construction bases in every homeworld. By then I had 30 bases to product colonyships while my 3 planets recovered from the emergency build.

Then, on every planet I colonize/conquer, first thing I build is Space yard. Then all production is faster. Needless to say, I got shortage of resources at the very beginning, but When I colonized new colony, I made it build mines and rad extraction facilities. My bases made colonyships fast enough (10/turn). So, I kept delicate balance in my resources (always zero), until I got enough planets to produce more resources than I was able to use. Then I ordered all my planets to build 1 or 2 construction bases which made more ships. etc.

Eventually, I had 2 or 3 times more bases making ships than I had planets, but my planets build then monolith facilities and robotic factories, etc. so there was no shortage of the resources anymore.