Firefly (The Series)...POLL

[Gwaihir]

I only saw part of one episode (i didn't find out about it until after a few episodes and then missed a few others, always figuring I could get them later - I rarely watch TV - I was hoping to start watching regularly at a later point (if only it was on on weekends!)), but I've read all the scripts I can find (some floating out there, and a few very good summaries, beyond whats posted on the website, but haven't found everything) and watched all the clips I can find . . . anyone know if there's a [cheap] way to get all the episodes to watch?

I went nuts when i found out it got cancelled - especially since everything unresolved about river (and details about the Alliance and Blue Sun Corp) is STILL bugging me. Especially some of the stuff from her little "Shindig" rant - the brushing teeth, the little roots, nothing that I've found explains that bit. and "the little ones in the corner that you didn't catch . . . they're the ones that reach in and do it, they're the ones with teeth and you have to smash them" - reach in how and do what? or is it the psychological effect of the omnipresent Blue Sun ads . . . whatwhatwhat??? So many things, and I won't ever know if they were even supposed to be wrapped up eventually or not!

[ May 05, 2003, 02:53: Message edited by: Gwaihir ]

[raynor]

The captain may have been more believable than Kirk. But he was pretty shallow and one-dimensional compared to Picard. The plots were so-so. I can't point to a single episode that had a good plot. The acting was poor compared to the combined body of Star Trek. Granted, Inara was pretty cute. All in all, in my opinion, the show started from nowhere, went nowhere, and was cancelled--big surprise.

No offense. But you just can't come on to the scene and start picking on Star Trek.

[Taz-in-Space]

Taz takes another pole! Taz Takes Another Pole!

Be serious? Well, OK.
Firefly... could of had big potential. Interesting group of characters and novel premise. Kinda like a freebooter space saga. Overall story hadn't advanced far enough for me to get a handle on where it would have been taken. Unfortunately we probably will never know.

Farscape, Firefly: maybe the top brass just don't like the F words!!

Sorry, but Taz was serious long enough!!

[Gwaihir]

To raynor:
Well, it can't be expected to "go" too far in 10 episodes. It sould have been given longer than that.

[Preacherman]

you can dowload the series via emule, edonkey, kazaar or whatever filesharing program. for emule, edonkey i'd suggest going to www.sharereactor.com , they are trustworthy and do all their riping themselves, so no viruses, trojans...

to raynor: character depths comes with time and of the 10 episodes 2 weren't that good and took the western style to far. but it was not the usual change this or that field and we win style of startrek (tng) which can get quiet boring if you see it every 3rd show.
and they had a storyline which i am a huge fan of, like the latter ds9 or b5 sequels.
by the way, their engineer gets dirty and has oil stains sometimes, not like the cleaning crew of every startrek series i saw, i like that.

[Gwaihir]

OOOH!!! THANKS!!!

clearly I didn't look hard enough.

hrm, i guess i should re-install Kazaa this summer . . . but it becomes such a timesink to have all those things you can get . . .

[Slynky]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
B5 suffered from the same inconsistant scheduling in my area, at least until the Last couple seasons. I never knew when the show was going to be on the first couple years. And a lot of times it wasn't on even when it was supposed to be according to the schedule. By the time it settled down to a consistant time slot the story was so far developed I couldn't get into it.

So Slynky, you got a juicy conspiracy theory for us concerning Firefly?

Fortunatly, rumors to the contrary, their is no "trilateral commision" in charge of making sure quality TV shows fail. It's simply short sighted programming executives that have to score big Ratings quickly or they get fired by even shorter sided upper managment. Shows like firefly that go against the flow take a while to develop a following. Networks don't take the long term view enough and give good shows a chance to develop that following. Cookie cutter formula shows get mroe slack because "something like this worked before", regardless of whether they have any virtue of their own.

Geoschmo

Juicy theory? Sure. But in a moment. I need to waste time trying to convert people who didn't give it a chance.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Gwaihir:
OOOH!!! THANKS!!!

clearly I didn't look hard enough.

hrm, i guess i should re-install Kazaa this summer . . . but it becomes such a timesink to have all those things you can get . . .

Do you know there are Firefly conventions? Not as big as Dragon*Con, mind you, but conventions where people get together. Star Trek has to rely on Dragon*Con and other such multi-dimensional shows. But people drove/flew from all over the country for JUST a Firefly convention. How do I know? 'Cause it happend just north of the Atlanta city limits. Not thousands of people, but people who loved the show.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by raynor:
The captain may have been more believable than Kirk. But he was pretty shallow and one-dimensional compared to Picard. The plots were so-so. I can't point to a single episode that had a good plot. The acting was poor compared to the combined body of Star Trek. Granted, Inara was pretty cute. All in all, in my opinion, the show started from nowhere, went nowhere, and was cancelled--big surprise.

No offense. But you just can't come on to the scene and start picking on Star Trek.

Everyone has opinions, and like *******s, I have mine. I realize I am in the minority. One thing you should understand, though. I am a long time Star Trek fan. Old enough to have watched the original series, not reruns. And then to TNG. DS-9. Voyager (sucked!) and finally to Enterprise.

So, you're not dealing with a person who hates the Star Trek series and spinoffs. (henceforth referred to simply as "ST")

ST was and will forever be an "empire".

Given that, I had an open mind and took a look, a GOOD look, at Firefly.

And I can't remember plots in the ST series that were as deep. Give me an example of any ST series that had something like this:

(1) Who was Book (preacher)? Was he an agent who converted because of what he knew was going on?

(2) River. What REALLY happened to her? How powerful WAS her brain?

(3) Jayne. Hired to the crew. But, always a bit suspect on his motives and loyalty.

(4) Mal, the captain. MUCH more believable than Kirk or Picard. While both Kirk and Picard often found themselves in a position to balance lives of his/their crew, Mal came off MUCH better. If you watched, then you should pay attention to the backflash episode where he struggled to save his ship and crew members. And the pilot (another story). While both Kirk and Picard loved the Enterprise, NO episode of ST ever showed the feelings for a ship as well as Firefly. You see? It was Mal's daring attempt to buy a space vessel and "make a living with it". Serenity.

(5) "Love Connection". Yes, Enterprise has T'Pol and the captain. Kirk had "flings". And #1 had his Marina Sertis (sp?) on TNG. But I don't think any of them were developed as well as Mal and Inara. Not to mention the episode where it became known that Zoe and Mal had prior feelings.

(6) Firefly got out of situations with believable script. Kirk got of of predicaments with some basic logic (which was kewl). But, in ST TNG, Wesley saved the day TOO much. And often, someone (usually Wesley) connected "A" to "B" and saved the day. Give me a break!!!

So, I have rambled on to someone who, in my opinion, is a "diehard" ST fan. And will never accept an alternative. But, for those who gave the Firefly series a chance, you know what I am speaking of.

Finally, yes, I am an ST fan. But I dropped Voyager due to ridiculous scripts. DS-9 became a farce (too much BS with the Farengi). Enterprise was OK, but I found it tiresome. Sometimes, a series "spinoff" just isn't right.

Final tally? My wife is not really a SciFi fan. But, I told her how great TNG was. Someone loaned us the first season to watch. With enthusiasm, I put the DVD's on to watch. Then, I found myself trying to defend the acting and plots. Especially when it concerned the security officer, that blond whose name I have conveniently forgotten. Glad she died. So, it was then that I decided NOT to borrow the 2nd season of TNG to show her. BUT, Firefly held her every attentive moment. Was it because the show had more believable characters? I dunno. One thing I think, though, Firefly attracted more female viewers than ST ever did. Perhaps that was its downfall... it didn't attract the same audience that left dents in the couch every weekend while glued to sports from 1:00 am on Saturday till 7 pm Sunday.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Slynky:

quote:

---

Originally posted by geoschmo:
B5 suffered from the same inconsistant scheduling in my area, at least until the Last couple seasons. I never knew when the show was going to be on the first couple years. And a lot of times it wasn't on even when it was supposed to be according to the schedule. By the time it settled down to a consistant time slot the story was so far developed I couldn't get into it.

So Slynky, you got a juicy conspiracy theory for us concerning Firefly?

Fortunatly, rumors to the contrary, their is no "trilateral commision" in charge of making sure quality TV shows fail. It's simply short sighted programming executives that have to score big Ratings quickly or they get fired by even shorter sided upper managment. Shows like firefly that go against the flow take a while to develop a following. Networks don't take the long term view enough and give good shows a chance to develop that following. Cookie cutter formula shows get mroe slack because "something like this worked before", regardless of whether they have any virtue of their own.

Geoschmo

Juicy theory? Sure. But in a moment. I need to waste time trying to convert people who didn't give it a chance.

---

Sorry for the long quote.

But...

Imagine a series where:

(1) The chief mechanic was a female;

(2) One of the main characters was a professional prostitute (displayed in some sort of acceptable lifestyle).

(3) The smartest, most intelligent person on the ship was a female (River).

(4) Second in command was a female (Zoe).

NOW, you have a recipe for failure when considering the currently elected government (Republicans who embrace "keeping a woman in her place"). I have it on acceptible authority (well, as acceptible as comments made by cast members) that the Rebublican administration contacted the producers (FOX) and made comments that they didn't appreciate them (FOX) protraying women in a positive light who held positions in the series that were not in line with what they wanted a female role to be. After all, putting females into a position where they were 2nd in command, kept the starship running (Kaylee...who was shown in one episode having sex in the engine room), and "glorifying" the profession of being a "prostitute" was NOT what the administration wanted.

Think I am cynical or wrong? Then you should read the forum frequented by the actors themselves...which is just one other things that I think separates the Firefly series from the ST stuff. Ever see Shatner (a murderer?) or anyone else hop on a forum and chat with fans? Ever see the ST cast respond to Queries about how they felt about the recent Iraqi war? Well, maybe if they got paid!

Finally, it cost nearly 2 million dollars an episode to make. Just one other consideration when a network decides to cancel something.

So, I have spent some (wasted) time trying to give my viewpoint on why the series wasn't given a chance. After all, FOX didn't even air the pilot until mid-season! (How often have you seen THAT approach?)

For those who didn't give it a chance...I'm sorry for your loss. For those who embraced the series, I am also sorry for your loss. BUT, there is discussion of making a movie. It may never happen (and I hope it wouldn't be made without the original characters) but it is proof of the many fans that have shown support. And, perhaps, proof that there IS potential in the original scriptline.