OT - Thoughts on the Honor Harrington series

[deccan]

* Spoiler alert - don't read if you don't want to know what happens in the Honor Harrington books *

Okay, I'm up to "In Enemy Hands" now, which I think isn't too bad since I'd only started reading the series when PBW went down.

Despite the fact that Honor Harrington is unrealistically powerful (photographic memory, expert at unarmed combat, expert at swordfighting, expert at dueling with guns, expert starship tactician, expert businesswoman, good politician, awe-inspiring leadership skills etc.) this is a seriously entertaining series. As others have mentioned, the resemblance with SEIV is uncanny. Heck, even the starship sizes are measured in k-tons!

And missile pods! A mirror-image of those Devnull-style externally mounted CSMs! Grasers? Sidewall-penetrating PPBs! The series even has ships cover each other with PDCs, just like the game!

I thought that one major difference was the lack of fighters, until Harrington took command of the HMS Wayfarer, and the LAC carriers proposed by the Manticoran Weapons Development Board. I can't wait to see those carriers in action!

Anyone thought of making an Honor Harrington mod for SEIV? The main thing would be to emphasize the heavy reliance on missile duels as depicted in the series, with lots of different kinds of missiles, with the biggest, planet-launched ones going up to range 20 (remember Blackbird base?).

Now if only I can think of a way to simulate the passive, EW defenses against missiles. It would be great if the game could give different evasion modifiers to different missile types, but I guess that's not going to happen. It would certainly have to be a QNP system too. And missiles must drain supplies majorly, so much that a few full salvos drain all supplies unless it has extra supplies storage. And how would one simulate a ship coasting stealthily with impellers off? Hmm.

[dogscoff]

There was work on an honor harrington mod a while back, but I think it ran into some serious technical hurdles a while back.

As for the books, I read the medusan on e(forget the name) and honour of the Queen and enjoyed them both, and I have "in enemy hands" on my bookshelf waiting, but I'm fairly sure there's another one I should be reading in between.

I also agree that she is perhaps a little bit too powerful, but that doesn't spoil it for me. You do occasionally get those extraordinary people. The thing that irritates me about the books (although I've only read two) is the forumlaic plot:
1> The Manticorans face some deadly, sinister threat from the nefarious Peeps.
2> Some clueless, whiny, cowardly pacifist civilian suggests diplomacy rather than blowing stuff up. You just know that later on he'll wet his pants and/or get killed in some ironic fashion.
3> Honour blows stuff up, against incredible odds, losing three quarters of her ship in the process.
4> Hooray!

OK, maybe that's a little too broad, but you get the idea. Anyway, I do enjoy the writing style, the action and in particular the politics.

[geoschmo]

Honor is a hero. Heros have to be great or they aren't heros, they are just normal people acting heroic.

The similariies between HH and SEIV are natural since both David Weber and Aaron Hall drew their inspiration from the Starfire game.

[ September 08, 2003, 13:18: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Arkcon]

Deccan, an old thread on the possibility for an Honor Harrington mod is here:

click link:

I particularly like the prospect of mini drones being used as laser head missiles.

[ September 08, 2003, 18:41: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

[Narrew]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
The similariies between HH and SEIV are natural since both David Weber and Aaron Hall drew their inspiration from the Starfire game.

Actually it was Weber and another person (cant remember his name) that wrote a couple of books based on Starfire and they helped to design it (to what extent I am not for sure, but I remember Webers name on the early Version, which led me to the books) and you could almost picture each ship slot being filled with something.

Many long series of book tend to get boring, but Weber has become a better story teller as he wrote more books.

About Honor being a hero and able to do everything. As you follow her through the series, she is super focused, so when her lover got killed in a duel, she methodically learned how to duel and shoot a pistol, when she was the Sword of Grayson, though she never weilded a sword, her hand to hand combat skills and her ability to KILL allowed her to kill a Grayson radical (mainly because he never killed, he only participated in tournies). So is she an expert in everything she does, or is she a very motivated and focused individual, I would like to think the later, kind of wished I had that focus, but I am lazy.

So the HH series are one of the better series I have read, and I have read some of Webers other Sci-Fi and liked it also.

[deccan]

The proper sequence should be:

1) On Basilisk Station
Harrington is Captain Junior Grade and commands the light cruiser HMS Fearless. Fights peeps.

2) The Honor of the Queen
Harrington is Captain Senior Grade and commands the heavy cruiser HMS Fearless (the previous Fearless being destroyed at the end of book 1). Fights peeps and Masadans.

3) The Short Victorious War
Harrington commands the battlecruiser HMS Nike. This is a pretty short novel but includes an appendix with lots of juicy technical info on the the ships and weapons of the Harrington universe. Fights peeps.

4) Field of Dishonor
Harrington is retired from active duty and relieved of command of HMS Nike. Fights domestic Manticoran political enemies.

5) Flag in Exile
Harrington is made Admiral of the Grayson Navy and commands the First Battle Squadron of the Grayson Navy aboard the superdreadnaught GNS Terrible. Fights peeps.

6) Honor Among Enemies
Harrington returns to active service with the Royal Manticoran Navy and commands the q-ship HMS Wayfarer. Fights peeps and pirates.

7) In Enemy Hands
Harrington is promoted to Commodore and commands the 18th Cruiser Squadron of the Manticoran Alliance 8th Fleet aboard the heavy cruiser GNS Alvarez. Fights peeps.

Yours helpfully.

[oleg]

[quote]Originally posted by Narrew:

...Actually it was Weber and another person (cant remember his name) that wrote a couple of books based on Starfire and they helped to design it (to what extent I am not for sure, but I remember Webers name on the early Version, which led me to the books) and you could almost picture each ship slot being filled with something.

...

S.White ? "In Death Ground" almost makes you feel like reading another superb SEIV game story. Seriously, it really goes that way when I open a worm hole into AIC' Xi'Chung core systems... Death, destruction, millions of civilians left behind...

[CaptRR]

[quote]Originally posted by oleg:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Narrew:

...Actually it was Weber and another person (cant remember his name) that wrote a couple of books based on Starfire and they helped to design it (to what extent I am not for sure, but I remember Webers name on the early Version, which led me to the books) and you could almost picture each ship slot being filled with something.

...

S.White ? "In Death Ground" almost makes you feel like reading another superb SEIV game story. Seriously, it really goes that way when I open a worm hole into AIC' Xi'Chung core systems... Death, destruction, millions of civilians left behind...

---

Yep, I have read every book in David Webar's star fire series. The action tends to get a little monontounouse though. Especially in the Shiva Option, before that the bugs seemed like an unstopable force, then they sort of just fizled in the Shiva Option. Still a good book though.

As for the HH series, I have read almost every book in that series as well(except for the 2 newest hardcover ones, they just came out too quick for me to afford). The series overall is good, and probably my fiavorate sci-fi space opera of all time.

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*******Spoiler Alert************

*******Spoiler Alert************

The only thing that bothers me, is that the series is begining to become nothing but huge missile dules. At first, ships would throw missiles at each other for a little while, and then close in to slug it out with grasers. Now with the invention of the SD(P)'s litterally thousands of missiles are being thrown out. The LAC's in my oponion are just too weak to take on anything larger than a dreadnaught, and in a universe where thousands of missiles are being thrown out you have to have a dreanaught with pods just to survive.

Now in the Last book they mentioned a Battlecruiser with internal and external pods mounted along the top and bottom. Those might make the smaller ships at least be able to fight with ships of the wall. Now if only Webar will come up with some creative defense against missiles....

[oleg]

Sorry, don't rememmer the link - it was one of HH fan site - there was a discussion about new tactics. Basic idea is like this : if one Missile Pod Dreadnough can kill 10 DRN, why anybody would sent 10 ships ? Just send one. But after while, if you know most likely you will fight only one ship, why bother to use so many miisles ? It is an overkiil. Let's use less pods and utilize the saved space for PD and ECM ! And now we have another twist in the arms race

[Narrew]

Didnt Honor use pods because they didnt have any real ships? and that since it had been so long that anyone had tried to do something like that, Honor pulled a rabbit out of her hat and wyped out them damn Peeps. I like his politics (in HH), I can get as wound up with them dips that are running Manticore (as of the recent book) as our so called peace-nik politions