Military Buffs I need your help.

[Geckomlis]

Narf,

Try:

Behind Japan's surrender; the secret struggle that ended an empire
by Lester Brooks

Gecko

[Fyron]

Originally posted by rextorres:
Atrocities - dropping the a-bomb wasn't meant to save civilian lives - I guess it's hard for flag wavers to admit that the U.S. was already killing hundred of thousands of civilian lives - not admitting THIS is revisionist.

Could you please drop the inflammatory tone? Statements like this are only meant to provoke people.

[Erax]

The two A-bomb attacks... you cannot really understand them unless you get into the mindset of the times. I can provide some related facts which you will weigh and judge to reach your conclusion, as I have reached mine.

First, the two bombs that were dropped on Japan were not the modern megalopolis-busting nukes. I believe they were in the 40-80 kiloton range (too lazy to do a web search right now). This is actually less than the destructive power that was being delivered to German cities (via conventional bombs) on a routine basis just a few months before... and the loss of life from the initial bLasts may also have been less than in some conventional attacks over Germany.

Second, no one who lived in those times was acting rationally any more. After six years of continous fighting (eight, in the case of Japan) the level of hatred for 'the enemy' was... hard to describe, except by example. I have a friend whose mother was a child in Japan during the war. One day, she was standing alone in a field, got shot at by a passing American plane, ran for cover and survived. What made this fighter pilot want to kill an six-year-old girl ?

Third, no one knew about fallout and the aftereffects of the bLast. Some people may have suspected them, but no one knew exactly what was going to happen.

Fourth, and perhaps most important, Japanese behavior was completely alien to Americans and on a certain level it terrified them. During the island hopping campaign - Tarawa, Iwo Jima and so on - the Japanese military on those remote bases had fought to the Last man, and the civilians (yes, the civilians) had committed suicide rather than face capture. Invading mainland Japan was a nightmare for the US military, because they did not know what to expect, and therefore expected the very worst.

Which leads to my conclusion... yes, the A-bombs may have been a bad decision judged by today's standards, but at the time they seemed like a reasonable one. We cannot judge the past by today's standards, instead we should be glad that those standards have evolved.

[Cyrien]

Narf and others can try

http://www.nuclearfiles.org/hiatomicbomb/manhattan.html

for lots of information and actual documents from the time. Haven't looked through most of it so can't say if it has what you want. But it has alot related to the atomic bombs and the decision to use them.

[oleg]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

quote:

---

Originally posted by rextorres:
Atrocities - dropping the a-bomb wasn't meant to save civilian lives - I guess it's hard for flag wavers to admit that the U.S. was already killing hundred of thousands of civilian lives - not admitting THIS is revisionist.

Could you please drop the inflammatory tone? Statements like this are only meant to provoke people.

---

Direct that to Atrocities. We have been trying to tell him the truth, but being totaly brain-washed by official US propaganda he started it all by an uncivilized (by the standards of this board ) smirking on the people with different opinions.

[Cyrien]

Ah yes... the Truth with a capitol T.

[oleg]

Originally posted by Cyrien:
Ah yes... the Truth with a capitol T.

Ah yes... the one told by CNN and Fox News

"we are watching Fox" - Simpsons family

[Cyrien]

Sorry. But my truth never ever comes from a single source. I always review as many different sources and what lots of different people and Groups are saying and claiming and formulate my own opinion based on that. And I would never allow myself to think of it as anything but my opinion. Do I think that some people in power are doing something I don't like for the wrong reasons at times now and in the past? Yes. Due I think I can read their minds and know every motive they may or may not have? No. Do I think I can psychoanalyze dead people and know their motives? No. Do I think everyone is 100% honest in all the written materials they leave behind? No.

I have studied to be a historian and in the specific area of Historic Method you learn to try and be as impartial as possible and view each piece of information on its own merits as primary, secondary, tertiary, etc sources and to get a bead on the biases of each person. Because EVERYONE has biases and they WILL get into what they say, write, and do. Even with the best and most unbiased it isn't totally unbiased.

So CNN and Fox aren't good enough. What is the supreme authority that you get the Truth with a capitol T from? Maybe BBC? Some European news network? Independent reporters?

Please let us all know so we can get in on the Truth, as well.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

quote:

---

Originally posted by rextorres:
Atrocities - dropping the a-bomb wasn't meant to save civilian lives - I guess it's hard for flag wavers to admit that the U.S. was already killing hundred of thousands of civilian lives - not admitting THIS is revisionist.

Could you please drop the inflammatory tone? Statements like this are only meant to provoke people.

---

I second Imperator Fyron.

Rextorres your opinion should always count for something as it is a reflection of your thoughts and learning. If you start throwing around statements/comments that are written hastily than others could be offended. The end result is that people will not want to take you seriously; from here it no longer becomes a matter of sharing your thoughts as it does wasting your breath. You should rephrase or temporarily retract the statement for rephrasing as it appears very inflammatory.

[rextorres]

Hmm . . . why would calling someone a "flag waver" be considered inflammatory!!?? I would think that Atrocities et. al. would be proud of being a flag waver.

Atrocities, however, did call me a "revisionist" his tone to me sounded inflammatory he certainly didn't mean it as a complement.